Ravensfan23

The reason why I gave my opinion was because I was OK with it. I'm a Flacco fan as well and expect him to be great but that doesn't give me the right to question his work ethic when I've never been around him to know how he works. I'm in a competitive business with a lot of former athletes both college and professional, I know some of these men and women work their butts off 12-16 hours a day sometimes even more and they still aren't flawless in what they do. Just because Flacco still has areas to improve after nearly 10 years in the NFL doesn't mean he doesn't work hard. Again you don't have to take my opinion, it's my opinion not fact. I simply asked you to give evidence of your opinion which you did. But how is my assumption that if guys like Mason and Steve Smith who are as outspoken as any, would have called Flacco's work ethic in question by now faulty but you can use Ray Lewis, who didn't even stick to his word as an example? That's the definition of faulty. Not a single player or coach in 9 years other than Ray Lewis has questioned Flacco's work ethic, but reports are that he hasn't gotten with WRs in the offseason, it's safe to assume he doesn't put in work away from the castle?

You might not know the market value exactly but it's pretty easy to look at the top 10 RTs, see where Wagner falls in and offer him a contract accordingly. Now of course that doesn't mean he'll take it, he may want to be paid as the highest guy. We seen a few guys be allowed to walk because the Ravens wouldn't over pay. If Wagner is set on leaving it's nothing the Ravens can do. However that doesn't seem to be the plan. Of course I'm not inside the castle and those meeting but I think if Lewis was the perceived option at RT he would have gotten a long look during the Week 17 game when Wagner was out, but he didn't. When Wagner went out of the NYG game, it was Yanda who the Ravens felt was the best option not Lewis(don't think he was hurt yet?. I'm not saying he won't be a good option at RT, but the Ravens clearly view him as a LG and they believe Wagner is a top RT. I'm pretty sure the Ravens knew what type of oline they wanted to build way before it was made public so if Lewis wasn't much of an option at LG I doubt they'd continue to kind of lock him into that spot next to Stanley for years to come. I have to believe that if Lewis was an option at RT, at someone point even if just subconsciously, they would have mentioned his ability to play RT as something to like about him moving forward. But if I remember correctly everything was about what type of LT he could be. I strongly feel the Ravens feel that with or without Wagner they are set on the left side for the foreseeable future. Lewis may have been drafted as a OT when kicked inside to OG but it seems like RT is only an option in a emergency, must like Yanda

And? That doesn't prove or even give a reason to believe Flacco doesn't work hard.

Ok. Prove it. I'm a very simple guy. You don't have agree with me, just show why you believe he doesn't work hard other than just not being a fan of his. Because other NFL players don't consider someone a leader if they lack work ethic.

Again what are you talking about. I never gave an assessment of any WRs and if I did I said Sr clearly lost a step, Wallace doesn't run good enough routes to be anything more than a #3 deep threat, Pitta is nothing more than a checkdown option who needs to be replaced and Perriman needs to have the strongest offseason of his career because he has a lot to improve. That's the entire point, you jumped out there to support Flacco when it wasn't needed. This is a Joe Flacco thread and I pointed out areas where I feel he can improve. You brought up the WR and now you're bashing the FO for what reason exactly? I promise you I'm not trying to be a jerk here or enter into some type of measuring contest, I just literally don't know what you're talking about. All I said was Joe has some work to do this offseason, which btw Flacco himself said and you've taken that and done something completely different to it. Oh btw, I'm not that important to have any proteges

I think the door becomes wide open if Wagner leaves, but the thing is, I don't think they feel Wagner will leave. I think the fact that they are kind of pigeonholing Lewis at LG this early in the process speaks to either how much they like Lewis at LG or the fact that they feel really confident in retaining Wagner. Remember Ozzie said much of the ground work is already done on these contracts and they've already been in contact with some of the agents. I wouldn't be surprised at all if Wagner is one of the first FA signing and he stays here. Now if Wagner does leave I can see Lewis at RT, but even then I wouldn't be surprised to see Lewis stay at LG. I think the Ravens really like him there.

@rmw10 Does this addition give you any better feelings about the offense moving forward?

Sounds like the Ravens are set on having Stanley and Lewis on that left side. If I remember correctly I think they mentioned them two as a pair moving forward on the left side about 3 times and Mr. B even spoke about Lewis being comparable to KO. I think they have a great feeling about being able to keep Wagner and keeping Lewis at LG. I agree that Zuttah is done.

Yeah Perriman is key. The Ravens have to get a high level of production from home and I think they will. As for the type of WR they'll attack in FA I really think it'll be someone like Robert Woods or Britt, nothing major but it would be a huge signing if Perriman takes off. I think actually having a true off-season together will be great for Flacco and Perriman. Neither guy has to worry about any rehab or limitations, they already have a foundation in the offense and I think they both realize how much of the offense will be built around that connection. I'm excited to see how they return.

Honestly, I have far too much respect for Mr. B and some of the games hardest working WRs like Mason, Boldin and Sr to believe that's true. His lack of work ethic would have been exposed by now. Flacco didn't have to rehab at the castle last year, but reports were he was the 1st in last out everyday. I go back to what SSS just said on that talk show how Flacco does such a great job of not only remembering all the different plays and nuances of a different playbook each year but also is capable of putting others in the right spot. That's not just 9-5 work. I think the thing about Flacco is the fact that they're always change around him, so when he says it's hard to get guys together for the off-season it's true because he rarely has the same guys. Flacco not getting hurt for 8 season behind some piss poor olines speaks to the work he puts in imo. Can he do more, I think so. You always can do more. However I just think as fans we'd like to hear more about Flacco getting together with his teammates or hosting playbook study sessions and that would make us feel better. But it's hard for me to believe he's not a hard worker at and away from the facility.

Yea that trust factor is key. But it works both ways because it's hard to trust guys like Perriman and Moore when you saw them drop a easy pass earlier in the game. When Perriman dropped that ball vs the Steelers, I was surprised to see Flacco come right back to him. That's one thing I'll say about Joe, I think he trust his guys a lot, but I feel it's trust in the system that needs to improve. I remember going back and forth with a couple posters about the end of the Raiders game. They were saying Flacco was foolish to trust Aiken on the 4th down play and should he targeted SR, but he we covered well. I think we're Joe gets in trouble and becomes check down happy is when he doesn't have a good handle on the system or doesn't trust his oline to block well enough for him to allow routes to develop. But as harsh as it sounds, sometimes you gotta stand in there and take that shot. I think guys like Perriman, Moore and others have to make it a priority to develop that chemistry with Joe, even if they have to bug him to get together lol. He said he'll get those guys together this off-season so we'll see how it works out.

Gave his receivers none of the blame for what exact? I never placed blame on Flacco to begin with so why would I need to place blame on the WRs as well. I'm truly lost. WRs not getting separation or dropping balls added to the reasons why Flacco doesn't always complete a high percentage but that doesn't change the fact that he needs to work on his accuracy and being more consistent with it. I don't understand why some of you guys have to be all the way left or all the way right when it comes to Flacco. Either he does everything wrong or he can do no wrong. When both the owner and the player himself says he needs to play better, I don't think you have much of a dog in the fight. Flacco needs to be better, does the talent around him need to improve? Yes but it starts and stops with Flacco and he has work to do this offseason,

Hey I never said it was a strong limb I agree Flacco doesn't have to be top 5 for offense to success, I just know the capabilities of the offense and I feel they really highlight what Flacco does well. I think that is why Harbs wanted to go to the WCO so bad. Like it or not this team will only go as far as Flacco can take them and although running game is much needed, they need Flacco to play like the franchise QB they paid him to be even more. If Flacco goes to work this offseason on the things he needs to improve and the Ravens supply with the proper talent to fit this offense there will be ton of YAC opportunities with will drive the passing yards up. Than improved accuracy and timing will improve the success of the deep ball which means even more big plays. I have to think this is the Ravens mindset behind keeping Marty and continuity. Fix Joe and add a couple more pieces the offense should be good to go. But Flacco has to put the work in, which I think he will.

Yes he did, but how many of those passes went in the direction of the RBs and 2-3 yards passes to the TEs. Also let me make this clear, this isn't a knock to Flacco, it's just an honest opinion of where i think he needs to improve. How many times did you see a WR have to go to the ground and catch a pass when it should have been a RAC opportunity? There was a slant to Wallace in the Pats game that should have been a TD, instead it was a batted ball by Butler and not only did they not score a TD, the FG was blocked. If Flacco makes an accurate pass the score is 7-2 Ravens and all the pressure is on the Pats. It's little things like this that don't really show up with casual fans but it's those little things that will make the difference between hosting AFC Championship games and scrapping to get into the playoffs.

I think Steve Smith summed it up best. People don't really know how having so many different OCs each year effects you. It's almost like it's so common to us that we think it shouldn't have a negative impact on Flacco. Do i want to see him improve in this area yes. But you have to have a certain level of mastery of the offense to make those type of pre-snap reads because it's not just all about the QB. Think back to the Pats game when Flacco made the sight adjustment to the blitz but Perriman wasn't on the same page and never turned to look for the ball. The same thing happened with Aiken a couple times. People say Flacco can't read defenses, will you need to know exactly where you're guys are gonna be first. I strongly think this is one of the reasons we see Joe raise his level of play towards the end of the season and in the playoffs. Not because it just flips a switch to become January Joe, but because he's finally getting a hold of the offense and gelling with his weapons or lack thereof in most cases.

The offense never really required him to have great footwork or timing with his WRs. It was more about standing tall in the pocket and giving his WRs a shot to make a play. I think the best comparison from a old school guy is Troy Aikman. He was never a guy that really had great footwork in the pocket, but the offense didn't ask him to either. I think this whole narrative of "fixing Joe" is really the team saying we have to break the habits that Joe has formed for 9 years and transform him into the QB that strives in a WCO. The interesting thing is this offense actually suits Flacco very well and I wish he would have been in it from day one. Flacco's arm and the concepts of the WCO will allow the Ravens to stretch the field both vertically and horizontally. Just his arm strength alone is enough to get him by, like the Steelers game, really wasn't a great game by Joe but he made enough throws to win. If Joe tightens up his footwork i'm willing to go our on a limb and say he's a top 5 QB next year in yards, completion %, TDs and rating, because it will be next to impossible to stop the passing attack and I'd be dumbfounded if the Ravens don't run the ball next year. I never really cared about the QB getting his guys together in the offseason thing either, but again this offense never really asked for the passing game to be precise. However now it does and with the amount of youth the Ravens will have next year at the WR and TE positions, I think it's a great idea to get those guys together.

That aggressive mindset was by design. http://www.espn.com/blog/atlanta-falcons/post/_/id/22186/falcons-matt-ryan-dug-deeper-to-prepare-for-2016-season In terms of Flacco not being comparable to Ryan in the accuracy category, accuracy is something that can be improve on. It goes back to the offseason work. The Ravens offseason has never really required Flacco to be accurate which is probably why there has never really been much emphasis on Joe's mechanics. He could get away from throwing off his back foot because of a rocket arm. However now, he has to lock in on his mechanics more because this offense is about timing and precision. I will agree that it's unlikely to see such a jump for Flacco and this offense but I could see a big jump if Flacco improves in the areas needed. Where Ryan went into the offseason focused on improving the down field aspect of his game. Flacco has to focus on tightening up his mechanics that will lead to improved accuracy. He already has the arm talent to get the ball anywhere on the field, but those young gunslinger days are over. This offense needs him to be able to hit guys in stride both intermediate and deep or else the WCO won't work.

Again I can't stress enough that I'm not taking anything away from Matt Ryan. He's busted his but this past offseason to really master that offense. The only point I was making was to the poster who suggested that Flacco should be playing as well as Ryan because Sr. and Wallace are better than Gabriel and Robinson. It was said that Julio missed half the season which isn't true. Than the comment was made possibly suggesting that Julio Jones really hasn't had a great impact on that offense because his stats aren't the greatest. So I simply pointed out how his impact is felt greater than just the stat sheets show. That's all. I love what Matt Ryan is doing this year and that offense seems to be a great fit for him after some struggles last year.

Not sure how often you got a chance to watch the Falcons but Coleman has been a huge factor for that team. As the backup RB he played 353 snaps and totaled 941 yards and 11TDs in 13 games. He averaged 27 snaps per game, touched the ball 9 times per game and 6.3 yards per touch. I would definitely consider him a major factor. By comparison West as the starter played 442 snaps and totaled 1,010 yards and 6TDs in 16 games. He had the same 27 snaps, touched the ball 14 times per game but only averaged 4.4 yards per touch. It goes back to Julio drawing coverage to open things up for other players and also Kyle Shanhan being a great OC. For me it's nothing really special about what Matt is doing other than the numbers. What i've been really impressed with was his work that he put in during the offseason between year 1 in that offense and year 2. Remember last year he was getting beat up pretty bad by fans and media alike, much like Flacco is now. In fact here's a article from the beginning of the season, just after preseason. Everyone should get a kick out of this because it's almost identical to what Ravens nation is going through right now. http://www.thefalcoholic.com/2016/9/2/12754686/matt-ryan-s-future-with-the-falcons-3-possible-outcomes The improvements that Matt made is what has me impressed with him this year, not really the numbers because much of that is aided by having a stud in Julio and a OC smart enough to feed that really good 1-2 punch in Freeman and Coleman. That offseason work is what I want to see from Flacco more than anything. This offense isn't about Joe having a big arm to get chunks. His footwork, reads and overall awareness of where everyone is in the offense must improve and I hope that's his focus this offseason.

Oh no doubt, again I take nothing away from Matt Ryan. I'm not one of those guys that can't praise Matt because he and Joe will always be compared. He's played great, but if we're kidding ourselves if we don't acknowledge the fact that Julio Jones plays a large role in the success of that passing offense. Let's be honest. Guys like Gabriel and Robinson aren't making huge plays on a consistent basis vs top DBs. Robinson has had the same exact season as he did with the Redskins back in 2013. He's a big play threat that isn't ask to carry a big role in the offense. Gabriel's rookie season with the Browns is almost identical to this year's production. Again, I'll take nothing away from Matt, he's playing his butt off and he worked hard to improve on areas he needed to in the offseason, but let's not act as if Robinson and Gabriel are doing things we've never seen from them or that Matt is putting up these numbers with those two as his #1 and #2 WRs. I actually have the Ravens taking Mike at 16 as of right now. I think he and Perriman would be beastly together. I think they compliment each other really well. I don't think people would know how to react if the Ravens made that type of move because it's uncommon.

Yea he definitely should win the MVP and if he can shake this playoff funk I really like his chances of winning a Super Bowl this year

Yea they could have taken the day off

Yea, I'm not even saying Joe would be as good as Matt has played this year, but it's unfair to compare what Flacco is doing with the likes of Sr and Wallace to what Matt is doing with Gabriel and Sanu as if Julio isn't a factor.

Take nothing away from Matt Ryan. He balled out. My point is Julio Jones changes the complexion of games when he's on the field because he has to be accounted for. Stats aren't everything, there were games I watched where defenses had a LB, CB, and safety bracketing Julio much like the Ravens did to AB the first match-up with the Steelers. When you have one players commanding that type of attention it opens things up for other players and makes throws easier for the QB. As much as I love Mason, Boldin and Sr. None of those guys commanded that type of attention, they rarely even saw many double teams

Oh ok, yea I don't feed into the reactions around here. I poke fun every now and then but for the most part I stay out of the Flacco talk unless I know i can have a sensible debate or convo with someone. I personally didn't have a issue with Ed's comments, If i remember correctly I had a problem with the timing. It's one thing to have that opinion and even bring it up team wide, but if your QB was rattled in that game in your opinion, why would you publicly make those comments, as true as they may be, before the biggest game of the year against a team that's almost unbeatable at home? Now the story becomes about Flacco and Reed and takes focus away from the team getting ready for the AFC Championship game. But other than timing I didn't have an issue with it. Even with the Ray Lewis comment I didn't have issue with other than the fact he made it about him and he apologized. If Flacco doesn't have passion for the game that's one thing but to compare him to Ray Lewis because he's not rah rah is kind of foolish imo. DMase always seems to have an honest opinion about Joe. He makes no bones about being a Flacco guy, but when Joe's playing bad he points it out.