Ravensfan23

He's available now, time to go get him. Question is what type of deal do you give him. As you said, get him in the building and don't let him leave until he's signed. I think that's an immediate upgrade to the Center position and frees you up to select another position of need in the draft.

I can definitely understand your point and agree that every player wants to feel wanted. I just feel that if a player wants to break the bank or be the highest paid, that's his focus. It's only so much you can show a player you want him and still build a successful team. Both Williams and Wagner are certainly important but if either push 10m for example, the Ravens can't continue to pull resources to accommodate them. That's just bad business. The Ravens have a certain amount allocated to signing those players and still fielding a competitive team. Now on the flip side those guys gotta do what's best for their families. If the Ravens don't fit into what's best for their families than they have to walk. If money is the only way to show love then teams like the Ravens, Steelers and Pats will loss a ton of good players which they do.

I think there will be a nice amount of pass rushers, DBs and RBs between the bottom of the 1st and mid 2nd. I could certainly see the Ravens trade back in the first round to pick up an extra pick or 2. But I could also see the Ravens use that 99th pick and maybe a 7th to move up and double dip at DB or lock down a good interior OL.

yea I think that's about right. Of course things like RFA and ERFA have to be factored in as well of draft picks signing. I think the Ravens are around 14M or so right now.

If i remember correctly it should free up around 20 Million if the Ravens do the type of cap purge that many think they will.

This was my point in saying they. They are just pieces, so they must know that the team can't just sit back and wait on them to make a decision to sign or not. For example, the Ravens have already made a offer to Wagner and he didn't like it enough. Ok, great let the negotiation began, but I feel it would be foolish for Wagner and his camp to hold it against the Ravens for trying to fill other areas of need on this team while in negotiation with him are on going. So while both guys know they are important I think it would be foolish for them to hold the team hostage like that because now you basically hurt the overall team to get your deal. If either guy had their feeling hurt because the Ravens are showing love or more love to another player that's not at the same position than both Williams and Juice should be mad at the Ravens for offering Wagner a deal already and no-one else. I just don't think those type of emotions are involved with these negotiations. I heard the same thing about KO. The deal was slightly bigger than what Yanda was being paid which would have placed KO among the top 3 highest paid Guards iirc. The highest paid players on offense was Flacco, followed by Yanda, so if the Ravens were willing to make him the second highest paid player on offense, that says they really feel like they need you. That says we want you in my book. But he wanted to be paid like you said. I think everyone knew the Ravens were up against the cap last year and made certain moved to go hard after KO which they did. So if he felt unwanted because the Ravens didn't completely blow up their cap to accommodate a LT like deal for him than he probably didn't really want to be here anyway, he just wanted Baltimore to be the team that paid the most which is a big difference. Remember KO got 4Mil per year more and 9Mil more in guarantees than Yanda. That's a huge gap and once the Ravens heard them numbers Im sure their the ones who lost interest.

Marshal Yanda even at 31 when he signed his latest deal was widely considered the best guard in the NFL and he wasn't even paid as such. Now I was and continue to be a huge KO fan, I wish we would have kept him. However when I heard the Ravens made him an aggressive offer, i instantly thought he got a offer in that 3-7 highest paid range and was cool with it because that would have put him around or slightly higher than Yanda, who again is the standard. However when that was turned down I knew he was going for big bucks and I didn't blame him, but I also didn't blame the Ravens one bit for allowing him to walk because that contract he got just wasn't gonna work for this team. That's what I meant by he wasn't worth more than Yanda to this team. I'm sure the Ravens felt if they didn't have to pay Yanda a max deal, they weren't gonna do it with KO. Also I think there was some concern about him playing LT moving forward as well. KO was basically paid as a top 10 LT without playing more than 5 games there. I just don't think KO was getting more than top 5 Guard money here and that's what probably ticked him off.

I think the Ravens might add a lesser name S if he comes at a good price. A mid 20s guys who's entering his prime and can push Webb. Its possible they could be upset about the Ravens pursuing other FAs aggressively, but at the end of the day a NT or RT isn't winning you a championship. The team still has to build and add other pieces. If they can't understand that or they feel some type of way about it than you just have to be willing to watch them walk imo. KO wanted to be paid higher than the Ravens were willing to pay. There's no way he was worth more than Yanda to this team and the Ravens weren't willing to over pay him. The Ravens were willing to make him a top 5 paid OG and he wanted to break the bank. KO getting nearly 10M more than the highest paid Guards landed him in Oak, not his feeling towards the Ravens. Now if the Ravens offer was like 1-2Mil off, than I would have paid more attention to the comments he made about the Ravens on his way out. But he just saw a chance to cash out and the Ravens wanted no parts of it. If the same thing holds true for Wagner or Williams they should walk too.

I agree 100% but I highlighted #5 because I've recently realized exactly what you just said. Wallace's cap hit is not that bad and won't necessarily have to be touched if other cuts are made. I've said that I feel Perriman could have the same type of production as Wallace did last year and that's just the floor for him. However as confident as I am in that statement, Perriman still has to prove it and until he does, Wallace is a heck of a #2. I still don't think he's a strong enough route runner to be a consistent weapon but that's why the Ravens want to add a another vet.

He had 3 sacks and 2FF in only 25% of the defensive snaps and you could clearly see he wasn't 100% at any point last year. So getting him healthy could be big, i wouldn't just write him off just yet. I agree with the getting younger and faster thing, but Mr B said it best. I think he said something to the tune of production is ageless. I say that because right now i'd gladly take a 33 year old Doom coming off injury over a 24 year old Zadarius Smith. I don't think he'll get the league minimum but I also don't think people will be beating down his door. If he was cut I think he'd be one of those vets who set on the market until after training camp. I actually don't think getting something done with Doom will be hard. I think the question is do the Ravens still want him.

For the record I wasn't saying Tony Jefferson should be added, was just pointing to that scenario. I agree that Webb should be retained at a lower cap number and the safety position should be addressed in the draft. I like Jefferson but I think the Ravens are in a good place with Weddle and maybe even Webb to develop a young safety. As for Wagner and Williams getting upset about a bidding war for another player. The Ravens wouldn't care. They can't allow either player to hold them hostage from building this team in other areas. The Ravens are going to allocate a certain amount of money to retain those players and I don't think they will go over that amount, regardless of what happens with other players.

I love his confidence. I love him saying, I never want to leave the field and the other TEs better get ready to enjoy the bench. He plays with that same type of confidence, but as you said he needs to get and stay healthy. I might be willing to add Doom to that list based on how low you can lower his cap and how that position is addressed. The Ravens seem to have a ton of faith in the young pass rushers but I don't share that faith. I'd love to see how Matt Judon progresses from year 1 to 2 and imo KC has to be used in more of a blitzing roll then just a regular rusher. So unless a guy like Derek Barnett (insert your favorite prospect) is drafted early or you can upgrade in FA with a younger option, I'd like Doom to return as a pass rush specialist. I think if healthy he definitely has something left in the tank and a vet minimum type deal would be great value.

couldn't agree more. The veteran contracts have really hurt. I'd rather see a bunch of young talented players flying around and possibly making mistakes than to see older vets who have clearly lost a step taking reps and not really improving the team much. I said the same thing about Forsett last year and many disagreed with me, but Pitta will hold this team back far more then he'd help this team in 2017 imo. Even on a reduced salary I don't think he's a good option in 2017. My only question is can you at least get a late round draft pick for him, but with that salary I highly doubt it.

He'll certainly be asked to take a pay cut, but unless someone like Tony Jefferson is added, Webb will be given the opportunity to compete for the starting role. So I wouldn't say Webb will automatically be a backup.

the Ravens don't lose players at any higher rate than any other good team in the NFL. We just notice it more because we are fans of the team. They just won't overpay for players and sometimes you lose quality guys because of it. If Wagner gets LT money, why would you want to retain him? I'd rather allow him to walk, move Lewis to RT and target Zeitler to play LG for a couple Million more than you were willing to pay Wagner. i like Wagner but he's a RT only and isn't even the best RT in the NFL. You don't overpay for that unless you're desperate. Pitta needs to go. I like the guy personally and I think he still has something to offer, but the Ravens don't need anymore mediocre talent than they already have. I'm not and I hope the Ravens aren't fooled by Pitta's high catch volume. His 8ypc total should mean more. Even when asked to press the defense down the seam he wasn't able to do it consistently. Even though unproven, I'd take my chances with the 4 young TEs and allow them to work in a play action heavy offense. I agree with Doom and Wallace. If you can't hands down find anyone better they should return. If healthy Doom is still a plus pass rusher, he'll just be a specialist more than a every down player. That's probably best anyway. Reduce his cap and let him hunt. Wallace can still make plays and this team desperately needs that. I'm a huge advocate of adding Britt because I think he's a playmaker that will be had for around 6.5-7.5 Mil over 3 years and you can still keep Wallace by extending him for a year or two. Convert his cap to bonus money and spread the rest of his cap over the next 2 years. If Perriman steps up the way the Ravens hope, Wallace can be cut the following year. Those older players haven't done much of anything to help this team win when needed, so why hold on to them? I'd rather see a bunch of young and hungry young players flying around trying to make plays, instead of holding onto older players because they are good guys or team favorites. So I'm cutting Watson, Pitta, Arrington, Lewis, Wright and Powers. Then I'm going to Doom and Webb to reduce their cap hits. If these moves are made, Wallace can actually be kept at his current 8Mil hit.

Barnett is my guy. In my initial mock draft I had the Ravens taking Cook at 16 because the Ravens are actively looking to add playmakers to this offense to keep pace with the Steelers and others. They also seem confident that these young pass rushers will step up as well, so I still think we might see a offensive splash at 16 with either, Cook, Williams or Davis depending on who's there. However if Barnett is there it'd be so hard for me to pass on him personally. This guy is a reckoning ball and learning from Suggs for a year would do wonders for him. I think getting into a NFL conditioning program will only add to his burst and he'll be a dominate pass rusher imo. He also sets the edge well enough, but again watching Suggs work for a year should help his game overall. I like him in that Suggs role long term but should be able to fill in opposite Suggs from day 1. I don't think he'll test well at the combine and there will be some highly athletic rusher who will blow up the combine, so that might actually push Barnett to the 2nd round which is insane imo. However if the Ravens feel his value is towards the bottom of the 1st, early 2nd. I wouldn't mind grabbing a CB or offensive weapon than trading up for him in the 2nd. But I don't think he gets out of the teens personally.

I don't think it does sacrifice winning in the short terms. As I just wrote in the post above, it's the performance of the players the Ravens choose to lock up long term moreso than the way Flacco's contract was structured. If Pitta, Monroe, Jimmy, Webb and Flacco all performed up to their contracts where would this team be right now? If drafted guys like, Perriman, Maxx, ZDS, Timmy, Elam, Brooks, Camp and some others were guys you could look at and say, I know they'll show up on a consistent level, where would this team be? I think the answer is the team would be winning and even if Joe's numbers weren't among the best in the NFL, the Ravens could still justify the contract because the team would still be winning. But yeah I definitely agree with you.

Flacco's contract isn't hurting the Ravens as much as people think. Over the first 3 years of the original contract, Flacco's cap hit was really team friendly. Since signing Flacco to the original contract, the team signed, Pitta, Jimmy, Monroe, Yanda, Tucker, Koch and Weddle to big deals. That doesn't include locking up guys like Zuttah, Wright, SSS, Forsett and Watson to deals that weren't big but the team thought these players would contribute a lot. They also made competitive offers to Torrey and KO. Flacco's contract hasn't hurt the team, that's just the perception going around. What has hurt the Ravens is these long term commitments and young draft picks not playing well over the last 3-4 years. The Ravens have been among the top of the league in dead money over the last 3-4 years because of poor contracts. Injuries have hurt as well. Flacco certainly has to play better and play up to his contract, but he hasn't stopped the team from signing anyone. Boldin was traded because the Ravens didn't think he could perform as well moving forward. Torrey wasn't a guy the Ravens would pay 10Mil for, especially since they have so much success getting close to over the hill WRs who can perform just as well as Torrey and no way they were paying KO LT money without being 100% sure he was the answer there which no one could honestly say. Seeing Flacco struggle on a huge contract sucks, but the reality is, the Ravens don't commit big money to outside players often and the guys they wanted to keep here they have. Flacco has to play better, but the Ravens were banking on guys like Perriman, Maxx, Brooks, Elam, Davis, Smith, Timmy, Taliafero, Buck and others to really step their games up and be the new era of players to keep the team performing well and that just hasn't happened.

I think what people miss about the whole Flacco contract is that It was the Ravens decision to structure it the way it is. This time last year Flacco went back to the table with the Ravens and said his reason was to create cap space for the team to continue to keep/add players. The Ravens choose not to structure the contract to create much cap space over the first 3 years and instead keep the cap hits level over the duration of the contract. Flacco banked on himself in 2013 and won. Now the Ravens are banking on the fact that Flacco will not necessarily get back to being a top 10 QB but get this team back to being in contention for a championship consistently over the next 5 years. Matt Ryan is about to break the bank and set the market again(rightfully so) and then you have younger players in their mid-late 20s that will set the market as well. Wilson, Carr, Winston, Mariota, Wentz, Dak and maybe even guys like Tyrod and Jimmy G will be getting paid over the next 3 years while Flacco is still under contract and their cap hit will almost surely surpass Flacco's cap hit. This is not to compare Flacco or his play to any other player because I think everyone including Flacco will say he's under performed, it's more to show the thinking behind why the Ravens signed Flacco to the contract extension they did in 2016. Those new contracts will push Flacco's contract down to the 7-12 range and maybe even lower should a few other younger QBs find a way to get paid. Not saying it's right or wrong, but imo this was the Ravens thinking on Flacco. Keep his cap number level and as the market and cap space increase over the years, his deal will be a bargain of sorts.

He wasn't good enough to consistently cause problems for LBs when Marty got him those match ups last year. So I doubt the Ravens are looking at him as a guy who can be at the top of the rotation and if he's just a #3 or #4 again what's the point of bringing him back? He has a role in the NFL, I just don't think it's in a WCO offense.

I think the Ravens feel the same way. No knock to Aiken because he stepped up when the team needed him to, but the team is looking for game changers and Aiken doesn't fit the mold. He'd be good for a team who already has a #1 guys established and just need a nice compliment. The Ravens need play makers and I think they're more willing to allow guys like Perriman, Moore and anyone drafted to develop into those guys than to give Aiken a nice payday to stay. Those numbers are inflated and makes Aiken's 2015 look better than it really was. In the first half of the season when he was the #2 guy, he was only targeted 44 times with 24 catches. 4 of those 8 games Aiken had a total of 5 catches for 27 yards. You just can't have a starting WR disappear from the offense like that. In those 4 games Flacco had a total of 109 completions and your starting WR only had 5 of them? No where near good enough. Over the final 8 games of the season he was targeted 83 times, which is why I think he doesn't get as much credit. As a #2 WR he disappeared in half of the 8 games played, but when the Ravens had to target him 10+ times each game, his production increased. The Ravens need a WR that can get open and make plays consistently, even when it's other talented surrounding him.

Np, a lot of those post were pretty long. But what I will say about Britt and the notion that he's an injury risk, he's missed 1 game in the last 3 years and a total of 7 since getting injure in the 2011 season. In that 5 year window h's played more games than Dez Bryant, Aj Green and Julio Jones. He torn both his ACl and MCL in 2011, dealt with the recovery process in 2012 and hasn't been much of a injury concern since. I think his injury history and the lack of trust in him is really only a concern because people don't hear about him as a result of playing for the terrible Rams.

I don't think he will and I don't think the Ravens really want him, but if he did stick I wouldn't be upset.

I think Britt will be looking at Marvin Jones type money at about 4yrs 28Mil that will probably have big bonus money and a smaller cap number over the first two year. I think Garcon will be looking at a much larger commitment imo. Somewhere around 4yrs 36Mil. It's my thinking that moving forward Britt and Garcon will produce at a similar rate, but Britt has the potential to be much more of a difference maker imo. I agree that Garcon has proven track record and Britt doesn't as much. Imo that's why Britt will come cheaper but looking at their 3 year trend track which is more of a future indicator then a entire career, Britt will be a bargain for some team. That's my only point. All the stats were just to show that difference between the 2 might not be as far apart as many think. As for the 3rd down stats. I pointed you to this site at some point, I'm sure it probably got lost through all the other stats. It only gives one year but again, what you've done for me lately gives a much better indicator of what you can do for me moving forward than your entire career imo. The site i looked at Britt converting 17 3rd downs into 1st downs. That's 36% of his 1st downs coming when the team needed him to make a play on 3rd down. They only ranked that top 21 WRs and Garcon didn't make the list so I couldn't get his numbers. http://hosted.stats.com/fb/leaders.asp?type=Receiving&range=NFL&rank=104 In terms of cutting Wallace for Britt. I think Britt has proven enough to show that he'd be more of a consistent chain mover and could also provide the same big plays as Wallace, so imo it's an upgrade. I like Mike Wallace to be clear.

Agreed. Don't know what their relationship is but he's played under Marty before and was said to have mastered the oline calls. So that might be another plus.