Ravensfan23

That's funny because as I sit here watching bowl games and chatting you guys here, i just said to myself that the board has an offseason feel lol. That Steelers lose was a tough one indeed. Yeah WR coming from that system allows him to atleast have a willingness to block, but blocking on the outside is a lot different than blocking from the TE position. If i'm him i'm asking Suggs can I workout with him all offseason and improving my technique by trying to block him(wonder how many guys do that). I'm not as high on Gilmore either, but much like Taliafero the coaches seem to like him a lot even with injury history. I don't know what it is, but I love Boyle at TE. He seems to be more than just a blocking TE to me but isn't really used that way. No matter what happens at the top of the depth chart he should be the #2 TE for his overall game as you mentioned. I know some people don't want to here it, but I think the most important thing for Flacco going into 2017 is continuity. I think things will change some with the system even if Marty stays, but to have so many guys with this young offense coming back and having a real(non rehab) offseason to develop with this guys will be huge imo. Dixon, West, Juice, Waller, Williams, Boyle, Wallace, Perriman, Camp, Stanley, Lewis, Yanda and Moore are guaranteed to return. I'd make re-signing Wagner a priority even over BW and keep this oline together as much as possible.That's 14 guys who will all contribute in some way to this offense next year and only Yanda and Wallace are older than 27. Not to mention guys like Urschel, Jensen, Buck and Gilmore who will at least be with this team in camp. I can do with or without Aiken. If you can bring in a veteran like Kenny Britt who has experience as a teams go to guy and would make a great match with Wallace but you'd hope that Perriman takes over, i would bat an eye at Aiken leaving. I think that's a very strong core returning and young guys that will grow around Flacco in this offense. I think the talented is clearly there, i think the key is spending as much time as possible this offseason self scouting to get the most out of everyone in this offense. So no matter if it's Marty or someone like Mike McCoy get them in that position asap so they can spend all their time developing the offense around the talent that is here and seeing who in the draft could help as well.

It's not just the FGs that were kicked, it was the amount of 50+ yard fields that were kicked. That's where not establishing the run game or having a TE who can stretch the field hurt. Once you get the ball across midfield and certainly 40+ range it's time to take a shot. That run action to move the LBs and Safeties are huge in those situations. That's one of the things that bothered me all season with the Ravens, they didn't take advantage of those shot play opportunities and when they did they had success.

But what are you honestly losing? A guy who is no longer quick enough to separate down the seam and he's not quick enough in/out his routes to consistently win vs LBs? The numbers look really good and I'm not taking anything away from Pitta, what he was able to come back from was tremendous. However you just said it. You have 4 young TE (all 25 or younger) and all have at least shown flashes of being able to produce. I honestly think if given the same opportunities as Pitta was that Waller, Maxx or Gilmore would produce better numbers. Again nothing away from Pitta, it just seems like the hip injuries really took a lot out of him and much of his production was of the check down variety. Moving forward, the TE position needs to be used as weapons not just check down guys. Those 75 recs are misleading imo. I think those 4 young TEs if healthy can more than get the job done.

I think it's only natural for Waller not to be as good a blocker in the run game coming from the WR position but he atleast tried. Pitta at times didn't seem to have a desire to even engage. That's why I said this offseason will be a huge one for Waller in terms of continuing to develop his body into one of a TE and he also has in game experience to know what he needs to improve upon. The more and more I think on it, the more I love the idea of Waller, Maxx, Boyle and Gilmore as the TEs next year. Waller and Maxx fill that stretch/move TE role that whoever takes over at OC will definitely love from a 2TE set. I've seen SSS or Aiken get matched up on a LB so much as a result of Waller and Pitta being split out wide together. That has to be appealing going into 2017. Than you'll have Boyle and Gilmore more who can add to the run game because of their blocking but they can also hurt any defense up the seam on play action with their strength and run after catch ability. I can still remember those 2 guys just running through defenders or huddling them in 2015. Yea the easy thing is always get rid of the guy, but replace him with who is the much harder task. As bad as his 2016 season was to some, 2 or 3 years from now people will just check the numbers and the numbers put Flacco in the top 10-12 in most major categories with his last 8 games being really good. So careful what you ask for in replacing him now that he's healthy. But i'd definitely like to draft a young guy to push Flacco. I think the Patriots have drafted like 2 or 3 QBs during the first 3 rounds of the draft the last 5 years or so. Having that insurance policy should Joe get hurt or his play falls off is just smart to me. But obviously you hope it just pushes Flacco to get better and that leads to him consistently playing well enough for this offense to be top 10 and Super Bowl.

Not a toot my own horn type of guy but many said the same thing when I said that Forsett would be cut if these young guys stepped up at RB. Not exactly the same situation but I saw signs of Forsett being near the end and I see the same from Pitta. Again the production looks good but remember in 2010 Todd Heap had a really solid season at TE with the combination of Dickson and Pitta behind him producing a total of 12 catches 153yds 1TD. So there was nothing about those young guys take said they could handle more snaps, especially Pitta who had 1rec for 1 yard in 2010. Waller, Williams, Boyle and Gilmore have all at least shown flashes that they produce given opportunities. Give the TE room to this young group and let them work. I think there is room for all 4 guys because I think the Ravens are comfortable enough to carry only 2RBs with Juice acting as that 3rd guy. That opens up a roster spot to keep a 4th TE. I think you cut Pitta before the offseason to allow him to pick up with another team and basically send a message to the young TEs that it's on them now.

well by good I mean numbers wise. I think he'd be much more appealing to a team as a 75-80 catch TE who is known as a security blanket and chain mover at TE. A team like the Rams or 49ers who have young QB or will have one in the 9ers case and don't really have much offensive talent. I'd be willing to take a 6th rounder for Pitta if a team is desperate enough. He does have the 3rd most receptions and 12th in yards right now so by the numbers he's still a good TE. But I agree with both of you guys. He hasn't looked good at all. Some of the things the Ravens wanted to do in 2TE sets they just couldn't because Waller was inexperienced and Pitta was awful. No surprise that the run game started to pick up when Boyle returned and the redzone offense improved with Waller getting targets or pulling coverage down there. Even without a trade i wouldn't mind seeing Pitta and his 7Mil cap hit gone.

Does anyone think that Pitta has done enough this season to dismiss the hip injury concerns and if that's the case does he have trade value much like Boldin and Ngata? I know it will be an unpopular decision and we still don't know what we have at TE behind him, but I think if he's clearly recovered that Watson can take over that veteran presence you want to have at TE to help the young guys develop. He'll count for 4Mil against the cap and I think that will be lowered. Pitta will count for 7.7 and even though his stats say he did well, I think that tank is leaning more towards E than it is F. Pitta at 31 has a few more productive years left to help groom a young QB, but for what the Ravens appear to be doing offensively I don't think he fits anymore. Waller, Maxx and Boyle have to be the focal point moving forward imo. Both Watson and Gilmore can come to camp as insurance and compete but I think those 3 guys are the future.

From a gameplay standpoint I don't follow them as much either. I just have a good friend who's a Falcons fan and our conversations about the Falcons last year are very similar to what this fan base has be through this year. Other than having the freakish Juilo, the offense wasn't producing enough big plays, the pass to the RB was too big apart of the offense, there seemed to be a disconnect. They had a talent young 1-2 punch at RB but didn't seem to have a desire to establish the run as much and wasn't scoring as much. I think more of those passes short of the sticks have more to do with Flacco and the players than the actual play call. Flares and Screens to the RBs are called a lot and I have seen some WR screens where it's only a 1 man route with everyone else blocking. But for the most part I think on 3rd downs Flacco gets rid of the ball quickly in a lot of cases and sometimes it's too quick.

Where i gained respect for Brady was that his lack of getting the ball downfield was holding that offense back in bigger games vs good tackling teams. So Brady went into the offseason the last 2 seasons with the intent of improving his deep ball strength and accuracy. Like him or not, he's probably the greatest QB to play the game for whatever reason and certainly the best of my time, so for him to still have a desire to improves 14-15 years into the game is impressive. The system helps him because he's been in it for 10 years, I think they started developing this system 07' and he knows it and where everyone is supposed to be like the back of his hands. But his work ethic and high standards for people around him definitely drives that sytem even better. Without Brady that NE system is like a finely tuned sports car, with Brady that same car is supped up and rarely never loses a street race.

I think 3 of the last 4 games show the potential of this offense moving forward. People seem to just dismiss the Dolphins game, but that's exactly what you are supposed to do to teams like that. Find a weakness and exploit. But the last 2 games is what I see from this offense moving forward, that is of course if Marty is retained. Strong running game, strong mid range pass game and be able to hit them over the top for big plays. I think these last couple games could be a nice foundation for this offense. They need to develop the deep passing game and I think that will help avoid so many check downs because more space will be created. I thought the running game really got going over the last 2 games and it helped the offense not only stay on track but also made the redzone offense much better imo. I think player error has led to not converting in the redzone over the last two games. Dropped passes, Dixon missing a blitz pickup among other things. I know most hated the overall showing of the offense but I think over the last 4 weeks there has been a lot to build on minus the Pats game which was just embarrassing. It'll be interesting to see what the Ravens think of the offense after Sunday. As far as Juice, that final drive should have been his moment and it was taken away from a poor defense. Right now Juice should be all over the internet and ESPN circuit as a pro bowl FB with hashtags about the FB position not being dead. The way the Ravens used him on that final drive is the way he needs to be used moving forward. He and Dixon are weapons out of the backfield and the Ravens need to take advantage of it.

No probably about it. If both those plays are made that's a total of 11 points the Ravens would have had. 7 for Pitta(remember the bad snap on FG) and 4 points Waller. That Waller play would have given the Ravens a 31-10 lead early in the 4th quarter and Juice's TD(if needed) would have sealed the game at 38-24. Even if the Steeles score that final TD with less than a minute left the score is still 38-31 and they'd need a Christmas Miracle just to tie. If Joe to Perriman in the endzone is converted we're talking about 40 points and a blowout. Forget about the numbers, yes they would have looked much better for Joe, over 70% completed and he'd just completely owned a good defense on a huge stage. However the most important thing is those plays are what is separating this team from being good enough to make the playoffs and overall being great. People want to get rid of Joe, unless you are supplying the new QB with guys who can actually make plays other than just the basic play, what will change?

Clearly I meant he, but if they come calling, I'm putting both Waller and Maxx through a body transforming workout program. From what they eat, how many times a day they eat and we're building up their strength. Both guys seems like they should be much stronger than they play. I see Waller as a potential Martellus Bennett type not necessarily from a production standpoint but body type and style of play. Very strong guy who can over power defenders but also very fast getting into the seam and down the field. This offseason will be huge for him I think. The same goes for Maxx, this offseason is huge for him. I think the TE group, if they stay healthy could be huge for Flacco next year. A lot of people didn't like the short to mid range passing game this year but I actually did. Once Flacco fully got over the knee being an issue, I think that short to mid range passing game allowed he and the offense to stay on track more and get Joe into a rhythm much quicker during game. It's a good foundation now the deep passing game has to be added in to put pressure on the safeties and that opens up even more space for the TEs and Possession guys.

This thread is already going on somewhere on this broad. Find it and post there.

I said this right after the game yesterday. It's hard to say a loss was a good thing but I think in the long run much like the 2011 AFCCG heartbreak this might be blessing in disguise. Here's why. If the Ravens find a way to win that game, the complete collapse by Pees' defense might be swept under the rug because of the Division win and almost certain playoff win at home. Now the Ravens have to take a really close look at this defense and the lack of pass rush/success blitz packages. If the Ravens win that game, addressing the issue of the interior oline might be swept under the rug because numbers wise the offense actually had a strong day. However now because the entire team has to be looked at, the Center and G positions have to be addressed. Is Lewis the answer a G and can Urschel or Skura be the answer. I think Zuttah isn't. If the Ravens win that game, Marty is easily the OC moving forward. However now the Ravens have room and time to actually do a true search. If he's the right guy cool, but there should be others who get a interview. Overall this team just hasn't performed like a playoff or championship caliber team and missing the playoffs should highlight that. If the Ravens walked out of Pit with a win, which they should have, but if they did the Ravens would have probably ignored the discipline issues, the inability to close out games, the long lapses of focus in the middle of games it seems and how they seemed to shrink in big games. One of the headlines I read today said the Ravens have to do some soul searching and i couldn't agree more. I don't think this team is far off, but I also don't think they can approach the offseason as if they are 1 of 2 pieces away either if that makes sense.

Hey if Ozzie gives me the call.

We both understand that we are talking about professional players here right? You don't have to see a defender to know he's there. Running that route the Safety was his man to beat so how does he not know he's there? So you're telling me that your assignment is to beat the Safety and there isn't much room for you to outrun him because of the sideline and you don't anticipate him being behind you? lol That's either stupidity or lack of awareness. Going to the point of the play, even if it was a great play by the defender, WRs are taught to squeeze the ball on the catch. Drills like this are done all the time to develop muscle memory to squeeze the ball on the catch. http://www.baltimoreravens.com/videos/videos/First-Look-Breshad-Perriman-Practice-Highlights/fe5c516f-a09c-4018-8e0e-94966beb59b2 Furthermore, here's Waller's account of the play. So as I said before, Waller just lost focus on the details of actually the securing the ball by squeezing it and it wouldn't have matter if Davis punched at the ball. When he says I was pulling the ball in, that's the problem. If he leaves his arms extended there is no way the defender can go through his body to even get to the ball. The only thing he would have been able to do is rip at Waller's arm. Waller is 6'6 and caught the ball above his head, the only way the 6'1 Davis has a chance to make a play on the ball is if Waller brings the ball down which he did when he tried to reel it into his body. Bottom line that play has to be made, period. That's what separates good teams from champions.

I'm not gonna beat up on Waller too much. I like how Marty has been using him in the redzone the last few games. I think he dropped one against the Pats as well but he made up for it the next play. I think you're right though if he can develop his route running and hands he'll definitely be a weapon. Can't wait to see how me, Maxx and Boyle work together next season.

I never said tuck the ball, I said squeeze the ball to secure, trying to tuck the ball is what caused the problem. I think you should watch that play again. Waller had both hands on the ball before the defender even got a chance to get his hands up. It wasn't until the defender made contact and Waller took his right hand off the ball to tuck it that the defender was able to make the play. Here's a highlight vid of the game. Pay attention to the 7:15 mark of the video. That play is made around the NFL almost every Sunday. Waller has to be smart enough to know that with a defender drapped on him to keep both hands on the ball until the catch is secure than he can tuck the ball and brace for the fall. Here's almost the exact same play from Martellus Bennett. Pay attention to the :50 mark. Notice how even though the defender doesn't get his hands on the ball, Bennett keeps both hands on the ball to secure the catch through contact and then he tucks the ball to brace for the fall. Just because the defender got his hands on the ball doesn't mean there was nothing Waller could do. As the taller player he has to keep the ball at it's high point to secure the catch, much like a big man rebounding in basketball. Don't even bring the ball down and allow the smaller defender to make a play. Yes it was a good play by the defender but only because Waller opened the window of opportunity for a play to be made at all. So your answer to the Dixon fumble is the same answer to the Waller drop. He left too much of the ball exposed. Both plays were a result of the Ravens players being to careless not really the defenders making great plays. But i chalked it up to both guys being young and probably in the biggest game of their life. Let's just hope the same mistakes don't repeat themselves.

I can get with that. There have been times where even I questioned if Marty knows how to truly use the weapons this team has. But is that something that can be rectified by during self scouting during the offseason or does that just mean Marty needs to go? You and I both have had this convo many of times before about players possibly being cut. To be honest the Ravens offense over the last 8 games, looks nearly identical to the Atlanta Falcons offense last year, minus a Julio Jones of course. But those guys didn't have a big down field presence or strong running game under Shanahan his first year. Then they took off this year. In fact reports were that Matt Ryan was overwhelmed in that offense and that he wasn't on the same page with Kyle. Now fast forward a year and they might be the most explosive offense in the NFL, mainly because they were able to stay the course. Now that's not to say Marty is capable of taking this offense to those heights but he does have a proven track record and that combined with some of the bright spots this offense has had, I feel Harbs will definitely give him an opportunity to at least interview for the job.

Yeah there were a few. while it was a good job of defender knocking the ball out, it's considered a drop by many including myself and Waller because he had both hands on the ball with possession and all he has to do is squeeze the ball. It's like not blaming Dixon for fumbling because the defender knocked he ball out. No it's a dropped ball on a play that should have been made. That is why you spend time working on securing the catch while others try to swat it away. It might not technically be a drop, but it's a play that should be made.

Perriman is more of a build up speed kind of guy right now with the injuries to the knees. I don't think he's 100% back from those injuries. I think he'll be fully back next season. He's so much more explosive out of his stance and in short areas than he's shown. Jet sweeps and reverses are tailored more for guys with short area quickness. That's why we haven't really seen it with much success until Camp returned to the team. Right now Camp gets to top speed quicker than Perriman does, but that'll change next season imo.

@rmw10 I moved my post here cause i'd definitely like to get your opinion on the OC moving forward. So here's what you said. In what way because I don't think i follow you. Are we talking play call, situational football, play design, production, adjustments or what? I think Flacco and the offense has clearly improved under Marty and the numbers show it. Since week 9 of the season when the offense started to get healthy(huge factor) these are Flacco's numbers: 8gms 215/315 68% 39.3att/g 7.0ypa 2,213yds 15TDs 7Ints. Run game: 8gms 24att/g 787yds 98.4ypg 4.0ypc. Great numbers for Flacco, not so much in the run game, however over the last 2 games there has been a stronger emphasis and it's helped. 50att 273yds, 25att/g 136.5ypg 5.46ypc. Overall offensive: 8gms 2,901yds 362.6ypg 5.5yds/p 25ppg 41% 3rd down. Those numbers are either top 10 or on par with offenses like the Steelers and Packers. In fact if those numbers are spread over 16, which i know we can't do, they look almost identical to the offense under Kubes in 2014. 364ypg 5.7yds/p 25.6ppg 41% 3rd down and everybody loved Kubes. Am i saying this offense was great or Marty has no flaws, not at all and I know numbers aren't everything. However to say that man has done nothing to warrant even consideration or to say this offense has consistently looked like the Pats game under him? Come on. I have to think that's an emotional outburst to this team not making the playoffs and when the decision is made on the new OC I can promise you emotions won't play a factor in it. The numbers and how well he meshed with his unit will speak much louder. Like I said before, right now I see a offense that just needs some tweaking and if you can find someone better than Marty to tweak, by all means bring him in. But you better be damn sure he will mesh well with players(Trestman's issue) and that he can either get more out of the current offense or install his own with success because this team can't afford another season missing the playoffs. Of course I didn't say all that to try and change your mind, just showing how I think there is definitely something to work with going forward with Marty if the Ravens choose to. What would your vision of what the offense should look like moving forward and who do you see out there to bring that vision to life?

Yea, it's crazy because after Bell scored to take the lead, I have all the confidence in the world that the offense would score to take the lead, but just didn't think this defense would stop them. You'd think it was the other way around.

So the Pats game should be the barometer? Because other than the decision to throw in the endzone instead of running to put the game away I can say the Eagles game was a really well called game. I definitely can say the Dolphins games was well called. Other than not staying aggressive and putting the game away vs the Bengals I can say that was a well called game. So we're talking 4 of the last 5 games and the NE game should condemn him? I agree the NE game was bad, really bad but I see a offense that need tweaking not a over haul. Like I said, if there is someone clearly better than Marty, great. Put this team has bigger issues than Marty running the offense. Like it or not he's done more than enough warrant a full offseason to run this offense unless there is someone clearly better.

Let me ask you this, what was the difference between the Steelers offense and the Ravens offense tonight?