Ravensfan23

Just my personal opinion of course but they don't get open quickly enough to present options for Flacco because their poor route running or in Pitta's case the lack of short area quickness. I'm going back and watching a lot of the offensive performances over the last nine games and the amount of times you see Wallace and Pitta get locked down because they ran weak routes or didn't make an attempt to uncover is ridiculous. Pitta had a bad habit of cutting routes just short of the LBs allowing them to sit back and drive on the ball instead of him pushing his route into the defenders, making them commit than snapping off his route. The two biggest areas this showed up was 3rd downs and redone. This offense needs a stretch TE and that's why they attacked Watson so hard in FA. Wallace doesn't fit as a top target imo. You can't rely on him to consistently keep the offense moving but the Ravens were forced to do that because of SSS injuries and Perriman not really developing like they wanted. I think what is needed is a savvy route runner like a Pierre Garcon or a big bodied WR who can out muscle defenders for position but also still make plays down field when called. This will be Perriman in the near future, but I think Kenny Britt is a nice option to take some of the pressure off of him. Not sure if the Ravens currently have that savvy stretch TE needed, but Waller and Williams will be given the shot to prove they are the guys.

Exactly 😁

I'm hearing this a lot and I've even said it too. I think it was after the Pats game I said I didn't think Marty knew how to use the talent on this offense. But after really breaking the offense down, I don't think that's the case. Let's be honest, the offensive staff has gotten away with some mediocre talent for years now. Although the Ravens have tried to improve the talent I think this team has just been snake bitten by injuries far too much over the last few years. Also some guys just don't fit what this offense is designed for. Neither Wallace nor Pitta fit this offense imo and SSS clearly lost a step last year, with is totally understandable. So that's 3 of your top target that really couldn't win early in their routes and that led to checkdowns. If the Ravens are committed to the WCO they have to fully commit and get players that can excel. Now I do think there is a role for Wallace here, but it should be nothing more than a 3rd or 4th option that can make plays down field. The Ravens desperately need Perriman to develop into a guy who can win at every level, cause the offense won't be successful without it. The vertical passing game just isn't a big part of the WCO. So myself and many others who wanted to see that this year were upset but the reality is, the deep passing game has to be set up by those 7-12 yard routes being successful and the Ravens weren't good at it. So safeties could just sit back in deep zone and really take the deep ball away. This team needs guys who can win early and stay healthy. Or if they aren't great route runners, they need to have that big body presence to get between the defender and the ball.

Kubes is one of the best offensive minds in the NFL. Not many compare to him, but he ain't coming back. We gotta move on. I actually think Marty did help Joe improve. Once Flacco showed signs of completely being over the knee issues, he played really well. Over a 8 game stretch from the Week 9 to Week 16 Flacco played really well. These are his numbers. 8gms 215/315 68% 2213yds 15TDs 8Ints 7.0ypa and the team came within inches in Pit from going 6-2. In what world are those not great numbers? Not just good but great, especially considering that 4 of the Ints weren't his fault. Now this is not to say that Joe had an overall great season because he didn't. But he improved, not the mission has to be building on it not starting from square one. Our oline could be elite? Which one because the Ravens had about 8 or 9 different combinations this year. Elite? Let's at least be honest in the expectations. In terms of using the personnel wrong, that's not the case imo. People want to see the Ravens push the ball down field because of Wallace and Perriman but that's not the offense. I'll admit that it frustrated me as well, but that's not the offense. Unlike under Cam, the deep ball now has to be set up and if you don't have success moving LBs and Safeties with the intermediate routes, the deep ball can be easily taken away in the WCO and that's what happened with the Ravens. Neither Perriman nor Wallace ran good enough routes to keep this offense on track and Pitta was nothing more than a check down option. The WCO is set up by a precision passing game in most cases and the Ravens didn't have that. SSS lost a step, which is understandable and while athletic, Waller didn't run good enough routes to get open quick. This is why we saw so many check downs. Not because they were called but because guys weren't getting open quick enough and even when the oline got healthy Flacco didn't have many clean pockets. This is why the deep passing game wasn't used more because the Ravens couldn't take advantage of that 7-12 yard area to influence the LBs and Safeties. Logic says if your passing game isn't working just run the ball, but it's not that simple. The WCO offense at it's roots is a passing offense. Now Shanahan put a twist in the game by building the WCO through his oline, but everybody can't do that especially if they weren't taught that way. First thing you want to do is establish a rhythm for your QB and if things aren't working you're gonna continue to try and get that passing game working because you're entire offense is based on it. It's no different than a run heavy team believing that even if the run game doesn't gain much yardage early, keep pounding it and eventually one will break, it's the same philosophy just different mindsets. Go back to Kubiak's time in Houston, one of the biggest knocks on him was that he was too stubborn to go away from the run game when it wasn't working and didn't adjust well in those games. So it's not just a Marty thing, even the best stick to what they believe and have faith in. I don't believe Marty called plays to fit Flacco's ego, I think he just called plays based on the fact that this team will only go as far as Flacco takes them and he's running a offense designed to get his QB in a rhythm at all cost, even if it takes 50 attempts to do so. Like it or not this is the offense the Ravens decided to run. Now it's about doing what's necessary to get the most out of it.

I agree with all of that. My question is how does the offense improves moving forward. Everyone including players and coaches have said the offense needs the run the ball a bit more, but it's not gonna be a whole lot more imo. Going into the offseason what are the adjustments you think need to be made to help improve the running game? Is it just rushing the ball 3-4 more times per game and throwing it 3-5 times less? Is it improving the blocking scheme or what? Is it being able to improve the passing game and scoring. The Ravens didn't run the ball enough at all, but moving forward I don't think they'll run it much more than they have. That 26-27 attempt range is the sweet spot imo and that'll be good for anywhere from that top 10-17 ranking. I think the key is getting the most out of the passing game and taking advantage of those early scoring opportunities which the Ravens didn't do this past season. I think if the Ravens convert on more scoring opportunities and can play with the lead more it'll bring those passing totals back down to the 35-38 range and get the rush attempts up to that 26 range. I honestly don't think just running the ball more was the key to success last year, I think the Ravens have to fix the passing game because that's the focal point of the offense. I think what Harbs said in his presser was telling and I think the end of season presser might tell us more about the thinking moving forward. Harbs mentioned how they already have an idea of the type of WR they need and the type of RB they need, which says to me they think they are missing a few pieces to this offense. I think those pieces are a WR or 2 who runs strong routes and gets open quick. Wallace is a good speed guy but they'll needs guys like Perriman and Moore to develop as route runners along with another WR who can either get open quick or uses his body well to get between the defender and the ball. Also I think they are looking for a more physical RB. Both West and Dixon have a physical element to their game but I think the Ravens want a bruiser to pair with Dixon. He also spoke about improving the oline. I think a draft that consist of WR Cooper Kupp, RB Samaje Perine and C Jon Toth could really help take this offense to the next level.

Yea the Ravens should definitely be able to pull off a 1yr low cost deal. His production has gone down each year and he pretty much fell out of favor in Tennessee. Not great terms entering FA. Sign him to a one year prove it deal and let him prove himself. It'll also work for him because it'll basically be a audition Year for a big contract. I would love the move. Definitely shouldn't be the only move. In his presser Harbs spoke about wanting to add another WR, be it a vet or rookie. His description of that WR was big physical possession type guy who can still make plays down field, I immediately thought of Kenny Britt. I've made it clear I'd love to see him here on a reasonable deal. If both Britt and Wright are added to Perriman, Moore and Camp I think that's would be a nice WR Corp but certainly young and unproven. But if Britt and Wright are added I wouldn't have a problem moving on from Wallace and Aiken.

Top end speed shouldn't be the focus of this offense. Solid to elite route running and the ability to make guys miss in tight spaces is what the Ravens need. I don't know how he'd handle replacing a legend but he's definitely SSS like. Of course he's no Sr, but I like his similar style of play. Also love the fact that he'd be low cost with a huge chip on his shoulder as a castoff 1st rounder.

game film speaks much louder than what we as fans see. Even watching all 22 angles as fans doesn't compare to what these coaches and players see when watching film. You and I have had the not running the ball enough convo and i've said you were 100% right in our talks. However we have to get to the bottom of exactly what's going on. The Ravens are sold out to running the WCO and unless your name is Kubiak more often than not you're gonna throw the ball considerably more than you run it in the WCO. That's just the way it is. The WCO by design spreads the defense horizontally with the passing game and using the run off of it. I'm sure you already know this, just saying. So those dink and dunk passes are here to stay because they are an extension of the run game. I don't think we see a average more than about 26 attempts per game over the course of the season. Which means Flacco will still throw 38-41 times per game. If we look at the numbers over Marty's 10 games that's about how they average out. So now knowing that this is probably the play distribution we'll next season, the question becomes, how do we get more out of the running game. Honestly I think the way you improve the running game and have even more attempts is to improve the passing game. The WCO offense is more of a precision offense and the Ravens passing game was anything but, from Flacco to the WRs, to the Oline. If the Ravens can improve on those 5-7 yard precision routes designed to keep the offense ahead of the sticks, I think we'll see more rushing attempts because the Ravens will produce more 1st downs and improving the precision helps in the redzone so scoring will improve as well. Also finding a few playmakers that can not only run those precised routes but make something happen after would be great. I'm looking at Perriman and Camp to be those guys next and they both have work to do. Despite the Eagles game, I think the Ravens run the ball more with a lead late in games. However that aggressive nature ain't going nowhere so expect to continue seeing the offense try to put teams away midway through the 4th quarter with a 10-14 point lead.

I don't think Mike McCoy would be a good fit. He's more in the mold of a Cam Cameron, so much of what he asks from his QBs is holding the ball, staying patient and allowing things to develop. Of course i'm just guessing here because I don't know the guy just know he comes from that same system we had back in 08-12' If the Ravens are gonna be true to this WCO which according to Harbs they feel it best suits Flacco, they need a QB coach that's not only very familiar with the WCO but preferably someone who either was a QB in the WCO or coached QBs a long time in the WCO. I think the biggest hurdle for Flacco to get over this offseason is understanding that the WCO passing game is directly tied to your feet. It's not about arm strength it's about your feet being on time with the routes being run. Secondly, even though the WCO is about timing and precision, you still have to patiently move through your reads. He sped through far too often this year. I think he needs a QB coach who can not only help him with mechanic and reads but also someone who has actually played/gameplan vs almost any defense you can throw at the WCO. For this reason I'd like to see Greg Knapp as the QB coach if fired by Denver.

All this is well written and I'm sure you'll get a ton of people to agree with you, but I couldn't disagree more. 1. You are talking about admitting he's not top tier. Are you serious? Can you imagine how little respect he'd get from his teammates? If you're saying he needs to put in more work to be as good as he wants to be than great, but "admit to himself he's not top tier" why even play the game if you don't think you are as good as the next man? Also let's not make Brady out to be such a great team guy. The Patriots came to him and ask him to restructure his deal, but he was always paid the same amount of money in the end. He didn't "give up any salary" No different than Flacco restructuring his contract this year, which he didn't have to do btw. Flacco's exact words. Futhermore, Flacco saving the Ravens cap money allowed them to make a competitive offer to KO but the deal he signed just wasn't smart for the Ravens, especially if he wasn't gonna be a LT. Since signing Flacco to the huge deal, the Ravens have signed, Yanda(15'), Monroe(14'), Weddle(16') Wallace(16') Watson(16') Jimmy(15'), SSS(14') Zuttah(15'). None of these players were fall back options for the Ravens. They were guys the Ravens wanted, so who exactly how has Flacco handicapped the Ravens? QYeah they weren't able to sign KO and Torrey but it wasn't because of Flacco's contract. Now of course Flacco's cap number has some impact on the team's ability to shell big money to some guys, simple because you can't sign everyone but i'm sure much like Brady if the Ravens approach Flacco about getting most of his salary in bonus money to save cap he would because it costs him nothing. 3. Just doesn't make sense to me. Your QB has to have input in the offense. Furthermore, the only time the offense seemed to really click is when Flacco was running things at the LOS. So why wouldn't you just go into the offense focused on him mastering Marty's system and working with his young WRs/TEs to get everyone on the same page as much as possible before offseason workouts. Also, by all reports that i've seen on the matter Marty is exactly the type of coach you described. He's a no nosense type of guy that isn't afraid to get in his QBs or HCs face to get his point across. 4. Are you kidding me? Seriously? I know Flacco had a down season and he'll probably get beat up all offseason until he performs well next season, but you can't be serious with this. Address his ego? What NFL player doesn't have a ego? I'll tell you the guy that isn't any good, that guy that's just happy to make the PS squad is a guy that doesn't have a ego. Did you hear what Aiken about knowing he's a starter in the NFL? Did you read the reports or see the reactions of Wallace and SSS when they wanted the ball? Have you ever heard Ray Lewis or Ed Reed speak? His ego is out of hand because he didn't want to be a wildcat QB? Really? Not to mention that was a full 7 years ago. Again what professional would not think they are the best, even if they know the next man is better? How would you really react if Flacco went into a big game vs Brady or Ben and said. Yeah I know i'll never be able to go out and have my offenses play to the level that those guys well, I just hope they make a few mistakes, so we can keep the game competitive lol. I'm sorry but i want every single one of my players thinking they are the best at their position and giving their teammates that confidence as well.

What's the infatuation with Dennison? From my view point he was the helper to a former QB in Kubiak. Even when he was here it was Kubes who worked daily with Flacco, Dennison was basically the guy that taught the offense to the other coaches. I'm not sure he's the guy you want to hand Flacco over to. I don't think the pass happy tendency is going away and I don't think it should. You need to throw the ball to win in this league imo. However what I feel they need to do is take advantage of other teams weaknesses better, hit on more big plays and score in the redzone. This will put more points on the board early and allow the offense to run the ball more. But Flacco is going to throw the ball 38-40 times each game no doubt. I I'm of the think that the offense wasn't a bad as it looked. Guys just weren't on the same page and you hope that's something that will be rectified by having a full offense to learn the offense.

Agree 100% the Pats game was bad, but also Flacco misses a simple slant to Aiken that would have led to 7 points, instead Butler made a diving play and the FG was blocked the next play. That's where players have to step up and execute no matter the call. If Joe throws a accurate ball, the score is 7-2 and maybe the momentum doesn't get away from the Ravens and the offense might stay on track. Again not excusing Marty but I just feel both players and coaches need to help each other out. The int Joe threw in that game, Wallace has to make a play on that ball in traffic. That's not on Marty. I think everyone involved with the offense needs to be held accountable and have their feet held to the fire.

I get all the backlash about this move coming off the season the team just had, but imo coaches can only do so much. These players have to do some soul searching this off-season and be honest with themselves. Marty didn't put Zuttah and Ducasse in position to have so many penalties. Marty isn't the guy out there not getting separation. Now does scheme have a lot to do with it yes, but I've seen plenty of times where SSS, Aiken and Pitta were matched up with LBs in 3rd situations and couldn't win. I've seen Dixon and West miss blitz pickups. How many throws that should have been made did we see Flacco miss? @rmw10 I agree that situational football has to improve. That's all Marty, but the discipline of the offense needs to improve. The effort needs to improve. Pitta just looked disinterested in blocking at all. That already puts you in a disadvantage in the run game. Marty needs to be consumed with improving this offense, but these players better do their part as well.

Yeah can't say I felt Marty was the best guy for the job, just wasn't sure there was a surefire guy out there better at this time.

Good point

Maybe Harbs will let us know something tomorrow at his presser. I'm guess his presser will start off with. Today we made the decision to _____ Marty Morningweg. He either has to be hired or fired because he was only the intern OC not the official one. Back in 2014 they didn't start interviewing guys until the 2nd week of January and Kubes wasn't hired until the 27th. So maybe we're just expecting news too soon?

I think that's the biggest issue for me. He's no longer that move TE that can stretch the seam. So where is his value going forward. It's not as a blocker. He wasn't as savvy or quick in tight spaces down in the red zone and was only targeted 9 times in the red zone out of 100+ overall targets so he's not much of an option there. For a guy with 100+ targets only 37 of his catches went for 1st downs and that's among the worse in the NFL, so being a chain mover wasn't a strong suit. As much as I like him and still a huge fan, I just don't see how he provides anything other than a dumpoff option to this offense. Because of the connection with Flacco, Pitta is often his first or 2nd read, but in reality he should have been more like the 4th or 5th option on most plays.

Christmas Day is on a Monday in 2017 Is anyone else thinking rematch with the Steelers like I am? The game will be in Baltimore of course.

I just got finished reading the article about Aiken being unhappy with his role and the the question becomes, where do you get snaps from? I would have liked to see Moore get more reps too because I felt like he was a more explosive version of Aiken. I think the Ravens will give him every opportunity to get on the field next year. KOR and see if he can handle multiple WR spots. If I'm Moore staying in Baltimore for the offseason, moving in with Perriman and taking advantage of every opportunity I have to catch passes from Flacco.

I agree that the offense needs to improve. I'm not gonna deny that at all. But is Harbs future any less hot next year if he hand picks the new OC, say McCoy or Roman and neither guy really opens this offense up and gets the full potential out of it? The Ravens have to win next year, especially against teams they should beat or Harbs is gone imo.

Joe talked about putting these guys on a schedule in the offseason for working out together. So it seems like building that chemistry with them is something that Flacco will focus on this year more then any other year. I think with a ton of hard work this offseason that both Perriman and Waller will be huge next year.

I think you might be pretty upset my friend. As I mentioned to you before, I think the players and Harbs are big fans of Marty and what he brings as the OC. I feel that the Ravens feel this offense just needs to be tweaked not overhauled and I can't say I blame them. Can the offense be fixed by self scouting and the guys growing in the offense or does it just need to be changed all together. Listening to Flacco I definitely think they feel it's just an adjustment thing. He talked about how plays were missed here and there. He spoke about how the lack of deep balls was more about the defense taking them away or the offense just not converting, more than a system thing. He talked about how running the ball more is important but how there were 6-8 additional passes added at the end of each half that made the passing totals higher. He spoke about the identity of the offense just needing to be more aggressive, but you have to have the players to do some of the things they want to do. Certainly didn't sound like a guy unhappy with the offense as a whole. Sounded more like a guy that was fairly happy with the progression of the offense and excited to build. Harbs has a presser tomorrow at 11am so I guess we'll see.

But they, especially Pitta were willing to throw Marc under the bus midseason? Flacco was willing to stand toe to toe with Marty at one point this season and now all of the sudden when the season is over you don't wanna speak poorly against the man? I don't buy that personally. I think both Flacco and Pitta spoke their mind and true feelings there. Now does that mean Marty stays no, but we'll see. Also it would make sense that both Joe and Pitta would speak well of Marty, they both had career years under him lol.

I don't think Flacco was defending nor condemning Marty. In traditional Flacco fashion I took it as he's not worry about what's going to happen because he doesn't know. He wasn't consulted when Marty was hired and probably won't be involved in his firing or re-signing other than Harbs and Ozzie asking his opinion. So when reporters try to get something out of him, he's just gonna say there is no uncertainty because nobody has said anything to him.

Says who though? Just a couple of reporters guessing? I'm not saying he isn't gone. But the longer the Ravens take to make their decision public the more i'd have to think he stays. HC and OC positions will start filling up really quick and if you have your eyes on a guy you go get him now, don't wait until the dust settles.