ravensdfan

Matt Ryan doing his usual post season choke.

Honestly, I'm not right now.

We made no major moves in coaching to fix our issues.

I had been excited about Orr to be truthful, so that's gone.

We're already going down the same failed offensive plan with adding some old FA WR with one or two seasons left.

We simply have a lot of needs that I don't see being met with acceptable talent to actually propel us into the fray again.

Just my opinion, and trust me I will be estatic to be proven wrong if that happens.

1 minute ago, K-Dog said:

I say there is a zero percent chance he retires. 

I tend to agree with you for next season at least - but still, just him even saying he's thinking about it made me go "whoa"

2 hours ago, ellicottraven said:

Well next year is a tell all in terms of who Flacco really is moving forward. He'll be 22 months removed from his ACL injury which is more than ample time for a full recovery and then some. Also, he'll have the same coordinator that he insisted on retaining so figuring out nomenclature and calls shouldn't be a problem. He'll have a running game in place and an effective O-line and quite possibly better WRs, either through the draft or free agency or simply by the ones we have getting better. 

So, if he continues passing the ball excessively to Pitta at 6 yds per completion and run the ball less than pass, we'll know that Flacco will not be a good QB for the Ravens. If however, he is able to play within himself, listen to his coaches and play smart and error free football, the rest of the Ravens team is talented enough to win us enough ball games to get us to the post season. Either way, we'll know because the real Flacco will inevitably show up.

What really floors me about posts such as this is 2 things: 1. We didn't lose because of Flacco. He came through in clutch time. The defense collapsed and gave up 21 pts in the 4th quarter. And 2. please, spare me with these "weapons". If you watch any football outside of the Ravens and especially post season, you have to note our receiving corps, and our RBs, are not even in the same universe as the talent these other QBs have around them.

7 hours ago, Tank 92 said:

We had RR and surely weren't going to take an RB in the 2nd round in 2013. 

Shazier?  I think we took CJ instead.

Like I said, other teams seem to find these hidden gems at WR in later rounds and the Ravens have failed at that. But they have done pretty well at D line and LB.

7 hours ago, gtalk12 said:

Did not need a RB at the time, Ray Rice was the guy

But wait a minute here now - when we complain about taking defense every draft, when we complained about taking the exact same defensive positions 2 years running, we're told - it's not NEED , it's BPA. So which is it?

49 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Did you watch Bell at Michigan State? This was all on the Steelers for player development.

No I didn't and development was also one of the possible problems I stated. I mean, it's just our players are so very not in the same league as these guys it's insane which makes me question how much of it is development. It honestly feels like a scouting issue. Then a hording picks issue when there is "that" guy available that would also fill a need and we just refuse to move up.

2 hours ago, Tank 92 said:

I agree about the WRs. Seems that every successful team has a couple of late round guys that if nothing else are sure handed and run routes. We're missing the mark there.   But RB?  Elliot and Bell were both high picks, so......

Bell was a 2nd rd pick so someone we passed on in that dreadful 2013 draft of ours. Know who we took instead? Elam. I mean, supposedly it's BPA and all that right? That says something.  Yes Elliot was gone before our pick so there is that I suppose. But they aren't the only examples nor is WR the only position.

We aren't hitting in the draft. Sure you can't call them failures - I get Stanley & Moseley are successful - but I was speaking impact players. Where are they since 2008?

And what is the "big solution" already stated? Oh yeah  yet another veteran WR on his last legs. Imagine if we gave up trying to just plug a hole so the ship doesn't sink and got a Smith SR or Boldin in his prime. Nope let's just keep on bailing out the water.

It isn't something I am saying we should do every draft but when there is a Dupree, Shazier, Bell, Elliott, Julio to be had - perhaps we stop hording useless picks and trade up. Just saying.

39 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Think it depends on the team. Without Jordy Nelson, I would want nothing to do with the Packers receiving core on the Ravens. Randall Cobb is a good player, but I would bet an absurd amount of money that a guy like Davante Adams is unbelievably less productive with a QB who isn't playing at a literally all-time great level right now. 

Same thing on the Patriots. With no Gronk, I have no interest in a Chris Hogan or a Malcolm Mitchell as a legitimate receivers on a Ravens team. Edelman is a very good player, much in the same mold as Cobb.

Steelers have a ton of good WRs and we know this already. My point is that they have playmakers at multiple levels. Dion Lewis is a playmaker. Devonta Freeman and Tevin Coleman are play makers. Ty Montgomery is a play maker. Antonio Brown, LeVeon Bell, etc.

Those are guys that make plays when their team needs them to make plays. We don't have a single guy on our offense right now that I think would come up big in a big spot. Not one that I trust.

Exactly! We do not pick these guys. We do not draft them. Sure, as stated, some are just not on the board come our turn, but many are and we pass them by. We simply do not match up on any level. Even RB. Don't get me wrong, I like our RB duo, but they are not on the same planet as Elliot or Bell. Something is broken and it needs addressed. And we can't address it as long as the FO is in denial of the problem. Another veteran WR - bah! Spare me.

On 1/12/2017 at 7:18 PM, frozen joe flacco fan said:

You and some of your younger protégés need to wake up and smell the roses. There's a terrific musical out there that you might enjoy. Its called La La Land. I listened to the End of the Year rapper or presser or whatever that was and one thing is evident. The Owner is "bewildered", the Coach looks scared,the GM is clueless and, oh yes, there was Dick Cass who was probably wondering why he was there. So, you have a problem with my assessment of our WRs? Well, we're even 'cause I have a problem with yours. Except for Steve Smith, who was an absolute baller and Dennis Pitta, the Wide guys couldn't catch a cold. Now, I'm reading some posts which imply that Breshad Perriman will return next year as the #1 WR. If that's true, we're in a whole lot more trouble than anyone could have imagined. Isn't Mike Wallace returning? Also, did you listen to the GM's laundry list of needs? He wants a complementary WR. If I had been in attendance I would have pressed him on that one. Complementary to whom? That press conference was worst than the Cincy game. They may be sleepless in Seattle but it appears we're clueless in Baltimore.

You can't have it both ways. You said yourself that Joe's work ethic is next to none. He worked out at the Castle on days when others didn't even venture out in the snow. He'll do whatever it takes this offseason to improve upon his game. I'm more concerned about the work ethic of some of his receivers now that Steve's gone. Maybe we could draft the Clemson WR who is 6'-3" tall with a 40 inch vertical! He might be a complementary wide receiver. He made a nice catch on a back shoulder throw, which is something Joe is really good at. 

On 1/12/2017 at 8:38 PM, rmcjacket23 said:

No QB puts his team on his back and carries them, so I certainly wouldn't expect Joe to either. Much like every other QB in the league, he needs talent around him.

As I watched the playoffs so far one thing became quite evident - for all the talk about hitting receivers in stride, these guys on these top tier teams don't do that either. The difference? Their receiving targets jump, turn, run comeback routes, tip toe at sidelines, fight for the ball. We don't draft impact players period. We just don't.

Now, is that a scouting issue, an Ozzie issue, a develpment issue? I don't know but it is definitely a major issue. Our guys on offense are not just sub par talent to the weapons afforded these playoff QBs, they are not even within the same universe. This is a big, big issue and until we've found the problem and fixed it, not sure we see the big game again.

I do understand that some of that lack of impact players are a result of draft pick position - but a lot of these guys were available when we picked, and we passed them by. Which makes me lean more towards scouting and Ozzie issue. Sorry, love Ozzie as much as the next guy, but perhaps his method has become obsolete.

Yeah the time for Pees to be gone was now - not later. Now with Frazier gone there is no longer anything to counter Pees' vanilla D. Nor is there any viable in-house replacement when things go south next season. Great job FO. Great job.

1 hour ago, redrum52 said:

My point was it was the best defense in college ball and they gave up 21 in the 4th.  There was a time when defense dictated offense.  Those times have changed.  Not many defenses can be trusted late in games these days.  Pit allowed us to march down the field for a td which we then gave up to them.  Its not like it's just us.  All for changing DCs but he wont make our pass rush or cbs better.  And the truth is, he's been our best schemer against good qbs... which makes it so odd when we struggle against the likes of Josh McCown.

 

@ravensdfan he doesn't tell the defenders to cover the wrong people when the Pats used the ineligible receiver.  He also doesnt tell the cb or s to not cover the wide open wr on the brilliant call by McDaniels.  Out of curiosity, who do you propose at the position?  Serious question.  

 

This team seems to lack creativity, but think that might be changing.

 

 

Yes it lacks creativity - on both sides of the ball IMO - and that falls on the schemers. How is it changing when the ones responsible for those schemes isn't changing?

Honestly, some of those it seemed would come available, did not become available it turned out. I'm not in the bring back Rex crowd - his brand of defense requires things we simply don't have right now, and the NFL has pretty much made it obsolete with its mamby pamby rules.  I would have liked to see us promote Frazier and see where the path led.

42 minutes ago, balfan23 said:

True the majority of fans that wanted to see coaching changes were not looking for Harbs' head, but would have liked to have seen a change on one or both coordinator spots. Understanding the way Mr. Bisciotti works ... what those fans were really saying is that they would have liked to have seen Harbaugh - not Bisciotti - make the change.

Mr. Bisciotti is not meddlesome - he makes decisions at a specific level and doesn't dive below that level in to the details. Despite the opinion of some, he did not demand that Harbaugh fire Cam or Trestman. He leaves all changes relating to coaching staff to John. IMO, this makes sense. If you want to hold the HC responsible in the end, you can't demand he makes changes that he doesn't feel are in the team's best interest and then fire him because things didn't work out.

John has been given the rope. Let's see if he uses it to pull the team up or to hang himself. Despite the fact that I was hoping for a DC change myself, I am hoping it is the former.

I hope it is the former as well. Despite the fact I disagree with some decisions he makes during games, challenges and the like, I think he is a pretty darn good HC. The entire thing though smacks of stubborness rather than good decision making to me in his case. Which is partly why I hate the decision to stand pat. I would hate to see him punch his ticket out the door at the end of next season.

59 minutes ago, redrum52 said:

Awful when a defense gives up leads like that.  Sure that never happens... Like Alabama just did...  Fire Pees for that, right?

Don't follow college ball to be honest, but did Alabama do it habitually? And really has nothing to do with this conversation. That would be on their defensive coordinator/coaches.

6 minutes ago, ALSKAN RAVEN FAN said:

I like your points but if I am not mistaken the 2-14 point leads  was in a playoff game right or wrong?

Joe plays big in the post season and that's what he needs to find a way to do that in the regular season.  Like I said I am a Flacco fan you can check out my previous posts I want him to succeed but he needs to find a way to be January Joe from September to January and hopefully  into February.

we definitelty do need a true #1 WR for Joe

you are right about that and that is on Oz and the scouts.

I do agree with your points ravensdfan.

 

 

Yes the 2 14 pt leads were in a playoff game. The 21 pt 4th was not. When the defense forced the offense to win the game 3 times over against Minnesota was not. When the defense all but allowed Dallas to steal a win (thank God their kicker isn't Tucker) was not. Oakland was not. A few late Bengal losses were not.That is just off the top of my head and does cover the entire body of work over 5 seasons. I did do the math prior to this season and it was absurd the number of times the defense gave up 4th quarter leads, not all of them losses, which is important because it is only the losses that everyone remembers.

I think Flacco needs to improve during the regular season, but I'd like to see us give him the tools to do so as well. However, if getting January Joe during the regular season means we can't win a playoff game (Bengals come to mind) I don't know how I feel about that lol

25 minutes ago, ALSKAN RAVEN FAN said:

I like Joe but to be totally honest Joe has not played up to the level for the amount of money he is getting paid with exception of the playoffs he has out played Brady, Rothlesburger and P. Manning during the playoffs. However during the regular season most of the time Joe is just average. I can remember a few regular season games Joe was AWESOME but only a couple against the Bucs I believe 2 seasons ago I think Joe had 5 TD's and against the Steelers a few seasons ago with C.Cameron as OC. I know other people on these boards might think of other games that he played at an awesome level  in the regular season but for the amount of money he is getting honestly thats not enough games for his amount of pay.  If Joe gets time he can play at a high level but part of getting paid at the level he is getting paid he has to be able to make things happen when its tough sledding on the field. Like I said I am a Flacco fan but it's time for him to play at the level he is getting paid. Just being honest.

I think that's a valid criticism, but, I'd like to see some of those other QBs without their top notch receivers. Something we've always lacked here. And, as in 2014 when Flacco DID perform, what good does it do if the defense is going to fold by giving up 2 14 pt leads? Or 21 pts in the 4th? I think it is good we're putting some focus on building around Flacco - I'm all for it - but why are we ignoring the obvious problem of a defense that breaks more often than it bends?

No problems with Mr. Bisciotti. If he did fire folks and act the fool, than we are no better than Irsay. I'll take a calm head at the helm of the ship.

May take a few years and a new coach but a calm headed owner behind it all will bring this team back to the promised land.

I have no problem with him however, the perception that most fans were looking for Harbs, Ozzie or Flacco to be fired is false. What he did NOT address was keeping the likes of Pees & Marty here (though an argument can be made in Marty's case) after that debacle. I like how they talk about expecting more from Flacco (a valid criticism) but ignore the fact that Flacco got the job done in crunch time in Pitt while the defense folded, again, just like they folded in NE giving up 2 14 pt leads. So Flacco performs like he did in 2014 - what good does that do with a Pees' led defense that breaks more often than it bends? Address THAT issue.

On 1/3/2017 at 11:20 AM, Perfekt said:

Yeah I get to look forward to watching Flacco regress more and 4 quarter blown leads.

We are interviewing QB coaches - so that says to me they understand that Flacco regressed. Personally, I think it was more a mental issue after the injury, or perhaps wearing a leg brace for the entire season. As for the 4th quarter blown leads that have plagued us since Pees' arrival - much like the Pees' defenders on this forum - it appears that Harbs is in denial in that area.

On 1/4/2017 at 1:18 PM, January J said:

Flacco and pitta had nothing to do with it.. Their comments had no bearing on the decision whatsoever...

And if you think that Ozzie and bisciotti didn't have just as much of a say in the decision as harbaugh then you haven't watched them do business over the last 8 or 9 years. This is a tight knit group that doesn't make decisions unless everybody's on board. There weren't many other options- certainly none that were any better, and yet ANOTHER change and ANOTHER mindset coming in could have been even more detrimental to the team. So that had to be weighed with the option of letting the guy who already has a relationship with his players actually get a full off season to do his thing.

As far as the decision to keep Dean- I mean its hard to argue against somebody who had a top 5 unit in that many different categories. This is a smart guy who's been around for a lonnng time. He knows what needs to be done- and we need to get him some pass rush to work with.  He has gotten the most out of some very mediocre groups and made lemonade when given lemons. Hes been put in some very tough situations and had to game plan for some of the biggest games without our #1 corner. Lets get him some real depth to work with.  I wouldn't have been surprised or opposed to a change at either of these positions... But at some point  its on the players to execute and produce.

Or how about a commitment to continuity? Nothing wrong with being loyal and trusting your guys to get things right. I'd rather carry on with the same group who knows the mistakes they made and know what they need to improve as opposed to hitting the reset button and taking a chance on the unknown. We obviously aren't far away as we missed the playoffs by 1 game , nearly won the north and almost all the games we lost were only by one score or less. We're a player or two away.. Commit to pass rushing and having a more balanced offense and we're right there.

Well I mean, Pees has been here 5 seasons and still has that same stick his head in the sand & hope for the best 4th quarter D. I think that is pushing loyalty and heading into stubborness and stupidity. Either way, Harbs could well have punched his ticket out of town after next season since he said it was HIS decision.

4 hours ago, OLD SCHOOL SMASH BALL said:

The reason they got rid of lower level coaches, is because poop rolls down hill.  

-------> Its not my fault says the HC, I didnt call the plays,-------> the DC says its not my fault we couldnt close out the games,---->The DLine coach says its not my fault we couldnt get any pressure on the QB's, ---->the Linebackers coach says its not my fault, my guys are ProBowl alternates, ---->  The Secondary coach says its not my fault the guys give up deep plays, ------> the OC says, Its not my fault we usually outscore our Opponents until 2 minutes left in the game, ----> the Oline coach says, Its not my fault the QB never steps up in the pocket, -----> the RB coach said, its not my fault, my guys legs are still fresh cause they never hand off the ball,----> its not my fault the WR coach says, they didnt want to throw to my guys, thats what we have RB's for, ------>The ST coach goes to Tucker, says its not my fault you guys cant score in the RZ, and I have to do the scoring for you, ----->Joe says its not my fault, I just run the plays you call,.....its the guy who makes the helmets fault, he put a special brainfart chemical in them

 

There was probably a lot of CYA going on at the castle to ward off dismissal of these coaches

Well true in most cases but Harbs has come out and owned the decision to keep his coordinators. Which means he could well have just punched his ticket out the door at the end of next season. Time will tell.

9 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

The same could be said for constantly firing people and not addressing the bigger issues, such as talent evaluation and development. Firing coaches consistently and expecting different results without addressing the core problems would be the definition of insanity as well.

If there's one positive that came out of this season, its that fans finally learned that canning a coordinator you don't like mid-season or even at all doesn't, in fact, lead to the promise land. Finally the Cam Cameron theory is dead and buried.

Agreed which is why I am pointing out there could be issues there beyond the WR issue. But is it scouting or development?

4 hours ago, redrum52 said:

 It's not one or the other.  Could be bad players and bad development but can you sit her and say Brown, Elam and Simon have really contributed?  

 

The offense saw the least turnover after the sb, so MAYBE, that had something to do with seeing more attention.  After the 07 season, take a wild guess where most of the draft attention was spent and then tell me how many top 10 units we ever had?

 

Defense shouldn't be giving up a td in end of game situations.  Offense shouldn't be throwing picks on its last possession of a playoff game.   That also doesn't mean you cant say offense should show up or defense shouldn't be giving up 14 points leads.  It doesn't always have to be 1 way or the other.

 

Most people dont care if Pees is fired from what I've seen, but I've seen games where he does exactly what fans beg for, and they still complain when we lose.  That or the style of play being asked for is used and HUGE chunks are given up.  

A situation the offense shouldn't be in if the defense doesn't squander 2 14 pt leads right? I mean, you are one who argues the defense can't be expected to hold after an offensive TO so then you can't hold the offense to a different standard when they are put behind the 8 ball because of the defense right?

The same thing happens offensively though too. RUN THE BALL! RUN THE BALL! Then we do and we wind up in 3rd and long situations because we only gain 2 yds.

Truly I don't think either unit performed so I'm not arguing that point. Merely pointing out that one has had 5 years of consistency at coordinator - and one has not. And the consistent one has the same issues.

Every year I get the same arguments from the same people - oh Pees just needs this or that position addressed - we address it and here we sit again with a defense that collapses in the 4th.

So to me, we need to focus on offense because a high powered offense is the only remedy to a Pees' led 4th quarter D.

18 hours ago, redrum52 said:

To top off this argument, in each of the drafts since 2013, not counting 16, most of the players kept from each draft have been on the offensive side of the ball.  From 2013, the only production we saw was from Williams.  It's very likely none of the top 4 picks from that draft will even be on this team next year with 2 already gone and one a bust who's here cause of lack of depth. 

So your argument then is that Ozzie & company have sucked it up then. Because it is either one or the other. Our scouting department and our GM(s) have been garbage or our defensive coaches don't know how to develop talent.

I mean, let's be honest. The defense has seen stability and the bulk of the top draft picks since 2013. Yet, they have the same issues.

The offense, on the other hand, has had no stability and seen only this last draft of top picks. Which is why it isn't fair to put the blame at the feet of the offense for not performing & flat out ignore the defense's failings.

Offense puts up 30 pts - defense gives up 33pts - it's the offenses fault we lost because they had the ball the last minute and didn't score

Offense craps the bed the first half but takes the lead the 2nd half. defense pisses away a 4th quarter lead. It's the offenses fault for only showing up for one half.

offense goes into halftime or 4th with a 2 score lead. defense pisses it away not forcing one punt the entire 2nd half. It's the offense fault for not scoring more TDs.

It's really quite absurd. The offense with all its turnover and turmoil is expected to perform an entire game ALL the time AND always score but the defense is allowed to take the entire 4th quarter off (sometimes the half & even the game. I recall a Pitt game where they forced not one single punt that everyone blamed on the offense) and it's a-okay and Pees is awesome.

I figure either a few coordinators change up their game or get fired sometime during the season. Otherwise, Harbs is probably out of a job.

Again, standing pat and expecting different results is truly the definition of insanity.

15 hours ago, R@venFan808 said:

The game folds in the end because the defensive players on the field can't call the right plays in the 2 min drill. If D pees is not calling the plays they fold. On top of that Defense has suffered key injuries all year. Suggs playing with a torn bicep, Doom recovering because  we now know he had surgery in the off season. Kafusi and Correa both were injured for most of the year. Leaving 4th round picks to do most of the dirty work for pass rushing.  Im seeing a lot of reasons why the defense folds. Pees is not one of them.

Five seasons of excuses for Pees lol This isn't a new thing - it has been here as long as he has. Including that SB we won. Where we were up 28-6 and nearly lost.

10 hours ago, redrum52 said:

I have absolutely no problem investing in the offense if they will get the job done, but there needs to be some semblance of a defense if a championship is the goal.  And recently the FO gas been putting work in on offense.  Id live a pass rusher or cb with our first pick, but have no provlem with it going to OL or a wr we think will actually come in and produce.

I don't disagree that we need a pass rusher & CB, I just have an issue throwing draft picks at a Pees' led defense that has shown it cannot close out games consistently for five seasons.

The OL needs love if we want the offense to be successful and I would agree on WR except that quite honestly we just don't seem to be able to scout WRs properly at all. I hate the bring in old on their last legs FAs to "build" the offense and then people claim we gave the offense the love & expect them to perform. The defense got 95% of the top draft picks the last 5 years and still has the same issues as before. So why don't you expect them to get the job done?

I have said this forever and a day, if Pees is staying, the offense needs to be a high powered offense. That is not going to happen plugging holes with old FAs. So if we get our CB and our pass rusher, then when the defense collapes yet again next season, there is no excuse right? Because seriously, it is just some new excuse for Pees every season.

5 hours ago, redrum52 said:

I can almost guarantee everytime the offense even sniffed 30 it was becuase the defense gave them extra possesions woth excellent field position, which is kind of ironic.. also, it seems a lot of the efforts recently have been made to help the offense yet again, they struggled.  Complain about the defense all you want, but offense has been atrocious 3 of the four years since Joe was re-signed.

 

One of those years, Joe was out due to injury. But I'll play - two years since that SB the defense collapses and cost us a playoff appearance or a chance to advance. Blew 2 14 pt leads in NE and then this season gave up 21 pts in the 4th. But yeah, it's all the offense lol

But that is pretty much my point. Better give the offense the love because nothing but a high powered offense will save the defense from itself.

As for the "help" for the offense - oh my! one year we went offense for our 1st 2 picks! the horror! lol We have given the defense all the love for Pees time here and all we get are the same old, same old.

We all know that old definition of insanity right? But yeah, keep Pees and watch your defense fold consistently when it matters late in games. Please.

Better give the offense all the love because, as I stated before, this offense is going to have to put up 30 or better every game with Pees' brand of defense.

I kind of get retaining Marty, he did not have an entire season after all. But Pees has proven over his 5 seasons he is not the answer.

At least we're interviewing for a QB coach.

12 hours ago, ravensnj said:

Dean Pees will be our DC moving forward. Anyone who thinks elsewise, doesn't get it.

If that happens, what I get is that we will remain the also rans we've been ever since his arrival.

We'll do what we always do - while everyone is doing their firing & contacting of potential replacements today - we'll wait around until next week or the week after - and then we'll wonder why there are no decent candidates left. Or we'll stand pat because there are no decent candidates left.

3 minutes ago, kennethyamini1989 said:

Wins..talking about wins. But I use that as an example of how "play makers" don't automatically = wins since folks are under the impression THAT is the problem in Baltimore. Lack of "play makers". I just wonder if they realize Odells and TOs are a dime a dozen....

Well we were actually just talking about playmakers in regards to Flacco's performance specifically. How pretty much every other QB deemed "elite" or "great" or whatever term you'd like to use has playmakers at his disposal. Which we don't have.

1 minute ago, kennethyamini1989 said:

btw EVERY team in the NFL has "play makers". This is the NFL. Please stop with that non sense. 

Who are they here?