ravensdfan

fact: a game has 4 quarter and not just 1.

fact: an offense job is to score points and they where the 25th best in the league.

fact; an defense job is to stop other teams from scoring and the defense was 12th best in the league.

fact: above rankings are based on a full season and all quarters not just 1 specific.

fact: 12th best is better then 25th best.

Are we arguing that defense was better than offense?  No we're not. I do believe I already said the offense was beyond disappointing. We're arguing about the defense's performance in the 4th quarter. You want to make some sort of argument that their late game failures didn't cost us games when it did.

Fact: A game has 4 quarters and not just 3.

Fact: If the offense ties the game late or makes a go ahead score at that point the game is in the hands of the defense.

It doesn't negate anyone's performance up to that point, but the offense cannot do anything else unless they have the ball. Once the offense ties the game or takes the lead, the game is then in the hands of the defense. If they fail, then they failed.

 

 

 

it does matter where they rank lol

 

the defense held the steelers to lesser points then the avg.

the offense gained lesser points then they avg.

 

your ranks puts you where you belong.

your rank is based on how you preformed.

 

a defense that holds the opponent to 4 FGs on 4 drives does a better job then an offense who scores 1 TD on 4 drives.

 

you can twist stuff however you want , bottomline other then the denver game  the offense is the bigger reason we lost games.

 

the defense lost more players then the offense so common sense would say they should spent more on that side.....

also the defense lost the 2 best players of all times at their position, a starting CB, a starting MLB, a starting safety.

5 new starters out of 11 and you want them to be elite.

 

is it realistic to expect them to preform at a higher level then the offense?

 

here is a very good fact: TDs are worth more points then punts and FGs

another good fact: scoring TD increases your chances of winning a game instead of punting and kicking FGs

another intresting fact: when you score TDs instead of punting or kicking FG , you dont have to rely on the defense to close a game out..

 

defense holds opponent to 19 points while offense only manages 16 points and its the freakin defense fault lol.

only 5 teams avg less then 19 points a game on offense

thats 5 out of 32.

just to give you an idea about how impressive it actually is to hold a team to just 19 points.

 

 

 

Defenses' job is to get off the field. They failed all but 2 times.

Offense's job is to put up points. FGs are points - and it is the offense that makes the yards to get you there.

We have a lot of defense apologists on this site. They use different measuring sticks for offense & defense.

Ranking only matters here because it lets you apologize for the failures of our defense. We ranked bottom of the barrel in clutch time defensively, for points & red zone defense. Those are just facts.

If you look at our games & how they played out - but for our 4th quarter failures, despite an underperforming offense, we'd have made the playoffs. That is also just a fact.

The defense is not absolved of blame when our losses were close games and the offense managed to actually either take a lead or tie the game in 4 of them (if not more, that is just off the top of my head) in the 4th quarter.

Myth: The defense was significantly better than last season.

Fact: Statistically overall the defense was better but statistically they ranked at the bottom in the 4th quarter.

1st 1 is a myth:

 

Fact: the defense did force 1 punt , but they also forced 1 fumble which the offense manage to get 3 points off.

Fact: in that same game the offense had 3 punts, 3 FG( 1 set up by defense) and 1 TD.

Fact: steelers offense AVG 23.7 a  game and where held to 19.

Fact: ravens offense AVG. 20.0 a game and where held to 16.

 

Fact: the ravens defense AVG allows 22.0 per game good for 12th best

Fact: the ravens offense AVG scores 20.0 per game good for 25th best.

 

if there is 1 side that needs improvement its quite clear where.....

 

other then the denver game most of the blame of all other games did not and should not fall on the defense...

Number 1 is not a myth. They forced only one punt and if you go back and watch the fumble, it was a gift & not a forced fumble. Either way - every other drive but those 2 were scoring drives.

Does it matter if they are ranked 12th overall if they wet the bed when it counts? Off the cuff I can think of 3 games where the offense tied up the game & the defense failed. Last Cincy game, Steelers game 1, Chicago game. They practically gave away the first Cincy game by blowing a 17-3 lead late in the game.

Overall, certainly they have improved statistically which is why I stated it is more a scheme thing late in games IMO then overall player performance. 

The offense was beyond disappointing this season but we put no effort into improving the offense unless you call bringing in 2 vets at the end of their career making an effort, yet we lost Boldin, Pitta & Jacoby. Did you expect them to perform at a high level after those 3 losses and no running game?

On defense we spent a high pick on Elam, brought in Canty, Huff, Spears, Doom, D. Smith. Pretty big difference.

Oh one more fact for you: Offense tied up the game in the 4th and the defense failed to get off the field

Fact: Defense got 4 TOs in a game to go to the post season and the offense only scored 13 points off those turnovers while the offense also turned the ball over twice.

No one fully blamed the offense but they deserve a fair share of the blame.

That is one game.

Fact: The defense forced only one punt on the Steelers first drive in Game 1. Every other drive was a scoring drive.

Fact: The defense allowed the 3rd most points in the 4th quarter of all NFL teams.

Fact: All but 3 losses this year were 7 pts or less.

There is an obvious issue in the 4th quarter and it has nothing to do with TOP or being tired. Personally, I believe it has to do with Pees & how soft & conservative he goes in the 4th.

Live in PA, about 30 miles from Cumberland.

Steeler country here. Period. lol

Edit: didn't read the 2nd part of the question lol Been here about 15 years. Everyone knows I'm a Ravens' fan. When we play in Pitt will see a lot of Ravens' fans travelling to the game. Never had any issues other than good natured ribbing which I give right back!

Myth: Flacco is worth 120 million dollars.

Fact: No one is worth 120 million dollars.

Fact: The market dictated the price for a franchise QB.

Fact: The FO could have had him for about $3M less per year but thought they'd play chicken and Flacco would back down prior to the start of the 2012 season. Guess who won?

Myth: (insert QB name here) could have made the disaster that was this offense work this season.

Fact: No other QB in the history of the NFL had the worst run game, 2nd most sacks, and lost their 3 favorite targets from the previous season all in one season.

Fact: Wiki is not an official anything, dude. Even on Wiki it only states, "Castillo coached the offensive line for thirteen seasons, from 1998–2010. " It never confirms in what capacity. It never states O-Line Coach. I admit that that's just a getting overly technical and it really doesn't matted. The real fact is that Castillo is not to be the total blame for our offensive.

The original statement came from Wiki. The 2nd post is the official team page of the Eagles listing him as the O line coach. I checked the years you are claiming he did not function in that capacity and he is listed as the O line coach.

Total blame? Nah. You can't lay total blame at anyone's feet for anything but you are cherry picking facts. He was the officially listed O line coach for all 13 of those years and the sack and run game stats for those years are fact. Surely he had assistants and such, most usually do, but as the officially stated O line coach it stands to reason he had final say.

Not in the years indicated. According to league records . In those years Castillo is listed as 'Notable Assistant'.

Ref: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/phi/2009.htm

Using this site you can go all the back history to a teams 1st game to the last game. Facts. Castillo was more known as technique 'Guru'. He is more accredited for making several linemen Pro Bowlers through precise technique and training regiments.

The official Eagles staff roster lists him as the O line coach.

Offensive coaches

• Quarterbacks – Pat Shurmur
• Running Backs – Ted Williams
• Wide Receivers – David Culley
• Tight Ends – Tom Melvin
• Offensive Line – Juan Castillo
• Offensive Assistant/Quality Control – Bill Shuey

Fact:

Castillo was not O-Line Coach in 2006, 2007 (John Harbargh), 2008 Doug Pederson, 2009 Doug Pederson, 2010 Doug Pederson

 

Fact: Under Castillo Philadelphia’s offense set franchise records in total points (439), total net yards (6,230), and yards per rush (5.4, the NFL’s top mark). With each of the team’s primary running backs averaging more than 5.0 yards per attempt, the Eagles became the first team in NFL history to average at least 4.0 yards per carry in all 16 regular season games, helping LT Jason Peters earn his second-straight Pro Bowl nod. Under Castillo, four linemen earned their firstcareer

Pro Bowl honors: Tra Thomas, Jermane Mayberry, Jon Runyan and Shawn Andrews.

 

http://www.baltimoreravens.com/team/coaches/Juan-Castillo/71348012-38bb-4777-a474-61921f736f8d

hmmm...I found different.

"Castillo coached the offensive line for thirteen seasons, from 1998–2010."

98 - 56 sacks

99 - 49 sacks

00- 45 sacks

01 - 40 sacks

02 - 36 sacks

03 - 43 sacks

04- 37 sacks

05 - 42 sacks

06- 28 sacks (yay!)

07 - 49 sacks

08- 29 sacks

09 - 38 sacks

10- 49 sacks

That is really not a good resume for pass pro.

Rushing:

98 - 14th

99 - 17th

00 - 15th

01 - 14th

02 - 7th (yay!)

03 -9th

04 - 24th (ouch!)

05 - 28th

06 - 11th

07 -7th

08 - 22nd

09 - 22nd

10 - 5th

So out of 13 seasons, the running game broke the top 10 four times. Not a really good resume for run blocking either.

Fact: Castillo last 5 years as the o-line coach he almost got the QB murderd with his crap.

2006 eagles gave up 28 sacks

2007 it was 49

2008 it was 23

2009 it was 38

2010 it was 49

I find this very telling & disturbing.

I stand corrected.

It's all good.

Don't get me wrong, I love Boldin. Wish we could have found a way to keep him, but sometimes it just doesn't work out that way.

Boldin had 2 years left on his contract when traded. He signed a 5 year deal upon arrival. Played 3.

He signed a 3 yr deal with one year left on his previous contract making it a 4 yr deal. It was the last year of his contract.

"On March 5, 2010 Boldin was traded to the Baltimore Ravens for the Ravens third and fourth round picks in the 2010 NFL Draft. The Ravens also received a fifth round pick from the Cardinals as part of the deal. Boldin agreed to a three-year deal worth $25 million, in addition to the one year he had left on his then-current deal, bringing the total deal to $28 million over 4 years, with $10 million guaranteed."

It's not totally unreasonable to say that if Flacco hadn't demanded such a large contract, the FO might have felt more comfortable with extending Boldin for a year or two and pushing some of his cap hit into the future.

 

Here's the simplistic reasoning that I am arguing against:

 

Person A: If Flacco hadn't demanded a huge contract we might have been able to keep Boldin.

 

Person B: Not true! Flacco's cap hit this season is only $6.8 million, it had nothing to do with us losing Boldin!

 

 

Person B is oversimplifying the situation. The FO is not only concerned with this season and next season. They have to plan according to their future obligations. With Flacco's contract, we have large future obligations that must be accounted for. It's really not that difficult to understand, I don't know why some are so unwilling to admit that Flacco's contract is a significant burden. You don't get something for nothing.

Fact: It was the last year of Boldin's contract.

Fact 2: That makes your argument about the FO thinking of the future moot.

Fact 3: Flacco's contract therefore, had zero to do with cutting Boldin.

Whether or not Pitta is worth 6-7M isn't the question, its the market value. Same reason we paid Flacco 20m a year. It was the going rate.

He has proven to be a guy who can catch 60-70 passes a year and be a good RZ threat. If we don't pay Pitta, he will walk and get paid somewhere else.

Due to the injury causing him to miss most of the season, I'm hoping that the FO & Pitta can come to perhaps some 2 yr deal at a lower price.

If not, pay the man. We need him on this offense.

personally, I'm not sure we need to pay 2 high priced pass rushers who have not really done much (other than penalties on Dumervil) the last few weeks.

With the Baltimore Ravens, it is not accurate to rank receivers 1,2,3,4.  It's a fallacy and just doesn't work with us.

 

We have possession receivers and big play receivers. We are not wired like Detroit, whose #1 is clear.  We are not wired like Chicago, whose number 1 and 2 are clear. (At least that they are in some order 1 and 2).

 

Every time we read in this forum, this guy or that guy is our number 1 or our number 3, or not capable of being a number 2, so he's expendable. We laugh with incredulity.  What is this a John Gruden best receiver forum?

 

Come on man enough with the rankings, its time wasted.

I agree actually. 

I would love for us to be able to retain Jacoby. I think he's a play maker for us both as a WR & on ST. We do have players that will be a higher priority though. Just have to see if they can get it done or if he wants more money than we're willing to invest.

Well, all kinds of ouch for Ed Reed here.

Ed Reed’s tailor should fit him now for the gold jacket that he’ll slip on one day, but it’s time for Rex Ryan to replace the future Hall of Famer with the man who was unceremoniously booted from the starting lineup three weeks ago.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/jets/mehta-rex-loyalty-reed-hurting-allen-jets-defense-article-1.1537978

I'm sure positive when he is ready to retire, the FO will do whatever it takes to see that he retires a Raven. They did something for Mason when he decided he wanted to retire a Raven, you know they will accomodate Reed.

He's bound to win one game right? I mean, the Jets won't really lose out right?

I knew it was time to move on from Reed and I said he would have the same type of season that Mason had after we cut him, but it is still sad to see it.

Wow. He doesn't even get the respect of keeping his forever number in NY. Has to wear #22.

Word is that Reed actually turned down the Patriots to go to the Jets.

He's a grown man and if he wants to do the end of his career popping from team to team because his playing days are behind him, so be it. He will still be a first ballot HOF and in the Ravens' ROH when he retires.

The only relevant stat is 4-5.  You are what your record says you are.

Then I guess the only relevant stat would be 2-7. That would be what the Texans are, WITH Ed Reed.

Face it, Reed's play (or lack thereof) proves you wrong. Ozzie was correct in not paying Reed the big money to stay. You can spin it any way you like, Ozzie's decision has been vindicated.

blech this is just disgusting.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/jason-la-canfora/24228202/jets-patriots-show-interest-in-ed-reed-after-safety-clears-waivers

It put a huge smile on my face when Eric Davis of NFL AM said the following about a possible home for Ed Reed;

 

"The best new home for Ed Reed would be his former home; the Ravens!  That's the best spot for him!  That's the place where his voice carries.  His voice echoes the most there!  It carries the most weight there!  He has equity there!  And they would still listen to him and he could help that team."

 

Eric Davis went on to say; "Does anyone on this couch not view Ed Reed as a Raven?  Does anyone not believe that Ed Reed views himself as a Raven?  Going back into that locker room, this is a place that could deal with him.  They know his history!  They've dealt with his injuries.  They know that even if he is not full speed he can perform there!  And, that is why I say he has more equity there...than anywhere in the league!"

 

#Mili

Yeah no one seems to get it really outside of Davis.

Reed belongs here, he's more than just a football player, he's family.

Maybe he can't play anymore. I don't really care tbh. Maybe, just maybe, he can still provide something here in Baltimore on the field, where we gave him the freedom to be Ed Reed.

If nothing else, he could most likely be used situationally and would definitely help coach up our young safeties. You can't teach instinct but Reed had more than just instinct.

I just really think it would provide an emotional spark for this team. I could be wrong, I could be just too emotional about it to see it clearly. Don't care. Ed Reed belongs in Baltimore.

The Ed Reed affair in Houston was not what it appears.

 

Houston crashed and burned. In the burning they began looking for reasons why. Ed's recent "Tweets" didn't help his cause. Upon reading them, I posted he appeared to be poisoning the water.

 

They singled out Schaub and Reed, but divesting themselves of those players is not going to resolve the inherent problem.

 

Read somewhere recently, that following stats alone is folly, as they pertain to football truer words were never spoken . You want Fantasy Football, you follow stats, you want to win, you start players who are winners. 

 

If you watched one of Diggers interceptions Sunday, it glanced off Cleats "Hands of Stone" Elam. It shot into the air as if out of a cannon.  Harder hands have rarely touched the ball in the NFL.  But I knew he had palms of granite long ago. Luckily Digger was there to round it up.  At the end of the game Digger tried to hand the game back to Cincinnati but made amends later.

 

We are weak at safety....as in fatal weak.  It was a HUGE mistake to not resign Ed Reed for one more year and of the following I am certain: he still has game, regardless of the chaos down in Texas.  Especially, for a team with safeties that are wishing and praying the big score is Not on them.  We suck at safety and if we don't make the playoffs it will be because of the play at Safety and the lack of a "Go To" clutch receiver.  But we've known that since April.

Reed had zero INTs and zero pass break-ups and only 12 tackles in 6 games. He is pretty much done as a player. Houston has problems outside of Reed, I agree, but they didn't demonize him. He wasn't getting the job done.

That said, Reed had a certain freedom here that he probably was not afforded in Houston. He was basically allowed to be a roamer in Baltimore and do what his instincts told him.

Your comments on Elam are ridiculous. The INT you mention, was far above Elam's head. He jumped for the ball and was lucky to even get a fingertip on it. That doesn't give him stone hands.

No matter though, because while we'd certainly like to see Elam picking off passes, he's paid to break them up as well.

Most here don't want Reed back to play. Reality is that Ozzie was proven correct in not resigning Ed Reed this season. Guess that sticks in your craw huh? lol

Bringing Reed back to Baltimore would offer an emotional boost to our team and nothing more. I could see using him in some situational football perhaps, but even that would be a stretch.

 

Jason La Canfora ‏@JasonLaCanfora2m

One quirk in Reed's contract - advanced $2M in salary/earned $1.76M of it, so HOU could claim any team that claims Reed owes them $240k back

 

•  

 

Jason La Canfora ‏@JasonLaCanfora45s

In that case, Reed,if claimed would cost new team $411K in base, $240K to HOU + $62.5K/game in bonus. That might be enough to preclude claim

 

 

Exactly why Ozzie is smart enough to know that for this very reason Reed may pass through waivers and will be able to sign him after he clears waivers.

 

I don't see the Saints and/or Colts paying out that kind of coin.

If he passes through waivers I hope Ozzie signs him on the cheap for the rest of this season. Please. It killed me to watch Mason's last season go through this same vicious cycle. I can't bear to watch it happen to Ed Reed.

Well then. I hope the Saints & Colts don't claim him. We might bring him back then.

I think it's dumb not to bring him back in. The emotional spark alone could help this team.

As for who do we cut, Stokley is just taking up space right now.

It's actually that $411K + $62K for every game he is active.  They jumped the gun on reports there.  We can't take up that much money.  If we really want him (which I doubt), we'd have to get him for the pro-rated vet minimum.

So that is another 420,000. Still got it in cap space and really, I just don't care. I don't want Reed going out like Mason did. Bring him home.