ravensdfan

Interesting. All the talk about Hostler or Shannahan and it's Kubiak lol Like secret spy stuff lol

Browns will have yet another reason to hate us. This would be so awesome. Please let this become official soon!

This is dragging out too much. On one hand, nice they are being thorough. On the other hand, going insane over here lol Adding another candidate does make me believe that Hostler is out. Someone with a vote must not like the idea of Hostler.

I will not be able to drum up any excitement if they go with Hostler. Sorry, but we all know with Caldwell being new to the OC job that Hostler had a hand in that dismal offensive performance we just had last season. I see absolutely nothing that says he will bring anything to look forward to offensively. As a position coach, he can't even come up with any way for our WRs to gain any separation. More of the same old, same old. Might as well have brought Cam back at this point if Hostler is the choice. I have to begin to wonder if this entire organization is afraid of being successful offensively.

Well it would make things awkward for Harbs to keep Caldwell if Hostler was calling the plays for the SB run. Don't think it would make it awkward for any fan here at all. Hostler is unproven at best and if you count his run at being an OC previously, already proven he can't do the job. My point is that given the resumes of the other people who have interviewed, he certainly does not offer more experience than the competition.

With complete honesty, given the four names we have, I'll take any of them over Hostler. I just don't see where Hostler has anything to offer over the other three names. To me, that promotion would only solidify all the Harbs & his buddies talk.

I know you're joking but I will absolutely despise that move. We just had the worst offense we've ever fielded and Hostler surely had a hand in that effort. Why would we promote him? What sort of change will that bring? It isn't like he has a resume that says he can do better than what we produced last season. IMO it would be a stupid move by Harbaugh and complete ineptitude from the FO to allow it. Linehan & Shannahan clearly have better resumes. I know you hate the buddy talk, but I see nothing to support Hostler being promoted other than the buddy system. Consistency can't be a reason because surely we do not want to remain the mediocrity we saw this past season. I hated Cam for years, could sit on my couch & call 95% of the plays correctly. IMO Hostler will bring more of the same and it is change we need. I just see nothing that points to us seeing any change with Hostler as OC. It would be yet another experiment and this is not the time for experimenting. We need proven talent, not possible talent.

I understand the personnel issues Hostler faced his last time out. I just want a proven, real, live OC in here for once now that we have our franchise QB. Personally, if we're going down the "unproven" road yet again, I'd rather go with Kirby Wilson.

I mean seriously - myth: Flacco supporters make the most excuses. fact: defense apologists are worse. (see above for proof) Does the offense get brownie points for every time they started inside their 10? At what point does the offense get any credit for moving the ball when a FG is kicked? Or are we of the premise that Tuck kicked from our own end zone?

Naturally - the debate was never about offense versus defense. It was about the defense being better simply because we're ranked higher. That isn't the case and if you see my previous post the stats prove it.

lol yeah because not getting a stop for 3 consecutive GB drives had no bearing on us losing. Not forcing more than one punt for the entire game in Pitt and allowing 8 and 9 mins drives had no bearing on us losing. Besides I don't care who you want to credit the losses with - the entire we're better because of our ranking is a myth. Myth: Because we're ranked higher our defense performed better. Fact: Though ranked 12th versus 17th last years' defense allowed less points, allowed a lesser QB rating for opponents and only gave up point 2 more yards per carry on the ground.

Chicago they allowed a 4th quarter TD to give Chicago the lead by 3. The offense took it to OT and we lost in OT. GB we did not have a 4th quarter lead but that was because the offense scored on 3 consecutive drives - FG, TD, TD and the defense couldn't get a stop and allowed GB to run 3 scoring drives and allowed GB to eat the clock in the 4th quarter with a 6 minute drive for a score. We lost by 2 pts.. First Pitt game - offense tied the game - defense allowed the winning score. Not to mention a blown 17-3 lead in the first Cincy game - we won that one. And the Viking debacle where the offense & Jacoby won the game more than once and the defense failed. 2nd Cincy game - offense tied the game - defense let them march down the field and score a TD on the very next drive. Those are all situational - and that is where the defense was by far worse this year than last. One could make a case for Buffalo & the Browns but I'm more inclined to give those to the offense for obvious reasons.

myth: The defense faced way more top scoring offenses in 2013 than 2012. Fact: In 2012, we faced 5 offenses in the top 10 for scoring. In 2013, we faced 6 offenses in the top 10 for scoring. myth: The defense performed much better than 2012 versus top scoring offenses. Fact: In 2012 our scoring differential (points allowed against the average points per game for those teams) versus top 10 scoring offenses was plus 17. In 2013, versus top 10 scoring offenses our differential was plus 14. A difference of a mere 3 pts. Note: This accounts for teams we play twice (if they were in the top 10). Myth: One statistic or ranking is the sole measurement of performance. Fact: There are many different variables that need to be taken into account. Rankings do not tell the whole tale - and of course it becomes difficult to go back & see where they were ranked when we played them etc. These are based on end of season rankings. I only quoted your post because it mentions getting back to facts. These are facts, easily verified. The entire "we ranked higher so we were way better" argument is myth & opinion. Edit: After double checking the figures we actually performed better in 2012 than in 2013 versus top 10 scoring offenses. We allowed 13 points over the average in 2012 versus 14 points over the average in 2013.

Top 10 offenses: Denver, GB, Detroit, NE, Chicago, Cincy for yards. Denver, Chicago, NE, Cincy, GB for points. Not that they were all playing at that level when we faced them. Top 10 defenses: Cincy, Houston, Cleveland, Buffalo for yards. Cincy, Miami, NE for points. So in essence - we faced 2 more top 10 offenses than defenses. If you extend that to top 15 though - Defenses: Pitt (twice) Detroit, for points. Offenses: add Houston. (again, for points scored). Not as lopsided as one might think.

Well let's see - logically, since we only lost 3 games by more than 1 score, I guess the defense's 4th quarter failings have more impact. It isn't about this one or that one costing a game here or there - it is about the myth that the defense was so great and so much better than last year - it is a myth. Their 4th quarter failings - giving up the 3rd most points in the 4th quarter - getting scored on 67% of the time in the red zone - cost us games this season. Did the offesnse cost us games? Yep. But there is no myth around that they were better than last season or so great.

I hate these sort of reasonings because it is perfectly alright to ignore the fact that the offense tied up the game or took the lead therefore, putting the team in a position to win or go into OT. In GB we held TOP until the defense gave up a 6 minute drive for a score. What is their excuse for suddenly failing when it counted? We're not talking an amazing deep ball by Rodgers that put them inside our 20 and then they scored. We are talking a 6 minute methodical drive where the defense could not muster one single play to get the ball back or force a punt. That is a defensive failure I don't care who did what previously. The point was never to say the offense was better than the defense - the point was that rankings do not tell the whole story - that the defense did not perform in the 4th quarter which is proven statistically - and that it sometimes cost us games every bit as much as the offense's ineptitude.

Well let's break it down - we've released no one (namely Caldwell) which means (because anyone worth anything will be hired by the end of the week) it can be deduced with pretty high accuracy unless he is offered a job elsewhere, we aren't letting him go. We basically just promoted Castillo. The RB coach left on his own - probably because of Castillo, and I only say this with the current info that Castillo will be the OL coach next season and because the RB coach has been with us for a while. Not to mention - the entire "no wholesale changes" quote. Pretty much - we aren't making any coaching changes unless outside forces make it necessary. I guess you didn't hear about bad route running when Mason was here. Why would you? The man was a consummate route runner. Housh was decent and Boldin was good. All of them were veterans that came here with those skills already in place. Their skills in that area were not learned and/or developed here. I already said the play calling was an issue but - Caldwell's still here isn't he? I call bullycock on the creative part. Massive fail in the run game and we did not even attempt to scheme our way out of it. Sure we saw a play here or there, but there was no consistent creative play calling, not even within one game. No they aren't the same guys. Hostler - joined in 2008 Caldwell - joined in 2012 Castillo - joined in 2013 Moeller - joined in 2008 Washington - assistant OL coach joined in 2011 The only guy who has been here is Wade, the TE coach. Hostler has been here since 2008 - what WR has developed under him? Torrey - who still cannot run crisp routes and has tracking issues. Something that seems to be issues with all our receivers. When Castillo ran the scheme in Philly they only had 2 years when the sack totals were under 30. I don't call that "working". They only had 3 years where the run game was in the top 10. Not an impressive resume.

And I'd be fine with that if we'd learned anything and were making necessary coaching changes. We are not. What we should have learned: 1. Castillo's ZBS system is crap. 2. Eventually Joe will get hurt. 3. Castillo's system destroyed our run game in one off season. 4. While he may not be the best, the Ravens need Pitta. 5. Torrey has not made the transition to a true #1 just yet (WR coaching ???) 6. Rice is not effective injured. 7. You won't know what you've got until you let them play (Marlon Brown) 8. You can't have a functioning offense with a stale playbook. But, Castillo is sticking around and getting more responsibility. - which is something else Harbs should have learned with Cam - don't hold on so tight to friends. Caldwell is still here. We've made no coaching changes on offense. Why expect different results?

Are we arguing that defense was better than offense? No we're not. I do believe I already said the offense was beyond disappointing. We're arguing about the defense's performance in the 4th quarter. You want to make some sort of argument that their late game failures didn't cost us games when it did. Fact: A game has 4 quarters and not just 3. Fact: If the offense ties the game late or makes a go ahead score at that point the game is in the hands of the defense. It doesn't negate anyone's performance up to that point, but the offense cannot do anything else unless they have the ball. Once the offense ties the game or takes the lead, the game is then in the hands of the defense. If they fail, then they failed.

Defenses' job is to get off the field. They failed all but 2 times. Offense's job is to put up points. FGs are points - and it is the offense that makes the yards to get you there. We have a lot of defense apologists on this site. They use different measuring sticks for offense & defense. Ranking only matters here because it lets you apologize for the failures of our defense. We ranked bottom of the barrel in clutch time defensively, for points & red zone defense. Those are just facts. If you look at our games & how they played out - but for our 4th quarter failures, despite an underperforming offense, we'd have made the playoffs. That is also just a fact. The defense is not absolved of blame when our losses were close games and the offense managed to actually either take a lead or tie the game in 4 of them (if not more, that is just off the top of my head) in the 4th quarter. Myth: The defense was significantly better than last season. Fact: Statistically overall the defense was better but statistically they ranked at the bottom in the 4th quarter.