3-4ravdef509

1 minute ago, Moderator 3 said:

NTM Joe is coming off a SIGNIFICANT knee injury and it took half the season for him to trust his knee.

Anyone who understands football sees has been improving week by week since the bye and most of the first half of the season issues were him shaking off rust and gaining confidence in his knee and learning new offense and new players

That's 5 drops, a spike, one intentionally thrown into the dirt, two shot plays, a pass thrown on 3rd and long just sort of giving the receiver a shot to make a play, at least 4 or more incompletions that didn't matter at all because we ended up scoring.

4 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I'm not totally a stats guy. But I think Joe was like 16/30, right? 

It's also the fact that the backs got 7 of those 16 completions.

He was also pretty off on most throws over 10 yards. He also missed receivers all over the place and probably left a lot of YAC out there.

He had some real dimes, like the SSS touchdown, but those were far and few between.

 

Ok, well I'm not gonna fault him for throwing to backs if they are open and gain yardage. That's stupid.

As for incompletions, lets look them:

1st - Doesn't matter as we scored on this drive

2nd -  It was 3rd and 17 due to a sack on first down...so no show here, he just tried to put the ball in a place only Wallace could get

3rd - a shot play, Joe looked like he wasn't happy with his ball placement there

4th - smith dropped it

5th - wallace dropped it

6th - dixon dropped it

7th - perriman dropped it

8th - a deep pass that was off manly due to pressure because Joe didn't have time to let route develop a bit more or place the ball exactly where he wanted. He threw it high only where Smith could get it and he almost did with one hand

9th - doesn't matter to me as we picked up first down after this and scored a touchdown after that

10th - it was 3rd and 12 and purposely thrown incomplete because it was a screen play read perfectly be the defense

11th - dropped as Camp was being hit, short pass, and doesn't matter as we scored on this drive

12th - actually i missed one from earlier that was just a spike

13th - inc to steve smith, for some reason my dvr cut out and I don't have the very end of the game, i was watching live and must have hit a button or something to end recording, and doesn't matter as next play was huge to wallace

14th - int

So I count... basically 2 incompletions that really had any impact and that were on Joe, # 3 where he went deep to Smith Sr, and then the interception. 

So i'm not sure where you get " He was also pretty off on most throws over 10 yards. He also missed receivers all over the place and probably left a lot of YAC out there." from. You're just wrong. Only other plays not considered here are sacks and the fumble, which we've all kind of agreed are unfortunate but mostly not on Joe in this game.

I'm saying given the circumstances Joe played well up till that INT. I don't recall any missed throws and terrible decisions. Few dropped passes, couple shot plays that were just put up there to give the receiver a shot that didn't really affect the outcome. Our offense scored 27 points in 23 minutes and it shouldve easily been at least 30, and had the TOP been balanced it wouldve been more probably

26 minutes ago, JonnyBaltimore said:

-Flacco got strip sacked on the 7 yard line, which resulted in a TD.

-Flacco got sacked at the Eagle 35 yard line and got knocked out of field go range.

-Flacco threw an absolutely terrible interception at the Eagle 10 yard line. Although his stats look ok, these are ridiculous mistakes

 

What rmcjacket 23 said  \/

16 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Agree with the 1st and 3rd one for the most part. I'm not really big on bashing QBs for fumbles unless its like a Mark Sanchez-like travesty, because all good QBs fumble seemingly multiple times a year. I mean even Brady, Rodgers etc. are in that 2-4 lost fumbles a season range. This one just hurt because of location on the field, which is largely random in some ways.

Interception was obviously horrible.

The sack at the 35 I went back and watched and I really don't see what Joe really could have done there. Pressure was there very quickly and there wasn't time to scramble or throw it away from what I saw. We've knocked Joe a lot this year for feeling pressure too quickly and not waiting for the play to develop, and now we want him to throw it away quickly here? Can't really have it both ways.

12 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I don't think this was a very good game from Joe, at all...

I don't know why you would say this. Take out the int, and I think Joe played as well as he could. Now that int was horrible, but sometimes playing it safe has hurt us and mistakes do happen sometimes when you're aggressive. 

Consider the following:

-The Eagles had the ball from over 13 minutes longer than us and we still scored 27 points, which could have easily been more had it not been for the interception. If our defense had played half as good as they've played all year minus the past two weeks, and the TOP been more balanced the score would have been higher

-Joe had two touchdowns, only a little over 200 yards but only because we actually leaned on the ground attack yesterday and rightfully so. When Joe had to make plays he did, evading pressure and making key throws. 

-As @rmcjacket23 said, the fumble sucked but the pressure was on quick and sometimes the defense is gonna make a play - the unfortunate thing was the field position. But Joe didn't have tons of time on his sacks or that fumble to do much, he tried stepping up but the line, especially Zuttah, didn't give him any room to operate and he still overcame that to make some plays.

With the int I give Joe a B- for yesterday. Would have been a A- if it weren't for that int. I loved how we ran down and tackled the guy on the int - gotta love that about Joe. Made the mistake but he didn't just give up.

Take out the int and Joe played a great game.

That int was really bad though. We're lucky to have held on after that. I like the idea of scoring and putting the game out of reach, just terrible execution.

33 minutes ago, Militant X 1 said:

All of this speculating on this has made me go back and re-watched it for myself.  

It "appears" to me that the gameplan was to run out the clock as much as possible prior to the last 2:00 of the 4th quarter with 2 TO's remaining and with the hopes of both kicking the FG to make it 23-30 and then, to try to recover the onside kick to possible tie the game with a TD.

Personally, I would have preferred that they hurried up without wasting all of that time.

If that's true then that shows basically no faith in our defense. They wanted to keep Brady off the field at all costs. 

Can't say I blame them considering how bad the defense played all day and then giving up that long touchdown

31 minutes ago, redrum52 said:

I was meant his play earlier in the season, not that he's trash or his play has always been bad.

My point though isn't about that. It's just that Joe isn't bad enough to make me desperate to take a gamble on somebody else. Now if we want to draft low round and develop someone I'm not against that, but I have expectations that Joe is gonna rebound. 

16 hours ago, redrum52 said:

 

So why would you take the worse qb?  You put them both together, just saying.  Trending up from trash doesn't mean much by the way.

 

Also, that Dolphins game is looking hella flukish when looking at the "standard" this offense has played to this season.  I've lost all that faith I had after another performance that has essentially become the norm here.

If we're talking in terms of just play obviously I would take Brady. But, unless you have knowledge I don't, it's not like we can just easily go find a Tom Brady in the sixth round of the draft next year.  That was my point, Tom Brady is virtually the best quarterback ever. If your standard for what we should have a quarterback is Tom Brady, then you're going to be perpetually disappointed for the rest of your life I'm sorry.  

Joe isn't Brady. But he's better than trash. Everyone around the league respects Joe even when he isn't playing his best because they know that when the switch flips they don't want to be on the other side

21 minutes ago, redrum52 said:

While Flacco is "trending up," Brady IS up.

....and the best quarterback like ever. So what's your point? Joe isn't Brady? no Crap

I hate how Brady "shows his passion". Looks like a little boy throwing a fit half the time. Gimme Joe Cool. He's still trending up since the bye week, if we get to the post season we will be dangerous, especially if Jimmy comes back

I know their d was mixing things up, but bottom line is they were playing the pass, and we needed to find a way to combat with the running game and we didn't. We just kept throwing short little dink and dunks against a 3-4 man rush. 

We should have gone up tempo and mixed in a lot of runs to help combat the rotating 4 man rushes they were giving us.

no personal attacks...no personal attacks...no personal attacks

Except Shaub chokes in big games and Flacco plays his best. And Flacco has always played in a tougher division - at least as far as defense in concerned

Ok. I think I have kicked the can so far that I'm lost in a part of town I don't know. 

Translation: this is getting old. Guys like you are like i scarce the forums nowadays. 

11 minutes ago, Sami84 said:

oh so QBR now means something..what about all the other seasons?

Just like when PFF praises some of our guys we get bullish..but when hes rated the worst in PFF it's ''PFF is flawed''

So when Flacco's QBR has been among the worst in the league '' its a flawed system''.

When it's been a good QBR '' Hes number 9 in the league QBR, good season''

 

whatever. Generally speaking, he's been on the average/below average mark in both stats

The point stands that Kubiaks system was good but also predictable at times and had its flaws. 

I've never seen a team more than ours run out 3-4 receiver sets and have nobody get open. Our route running is atrocious and at some point you have to look at coaching...

2 minutes ago, flynismo said:

http://www.baltimoreravens.com/videos/videos/NFLN-Rookie-Artie-Burns-Intercepts-Joe-Flacco-/d363569d-c4ca-4535-b55e-3c4ff8934b9e

I was at the game. If you're trying to say Aiken was open, he was anything but open.

Looks like the linebacker was underneath and the corner wasn't too far behind

7 minutes ago, flynismo said:

Dude he's a troll, don't bother...

Eh. I'll kick the can for a little bit

4 minutes ago, Sami84 said:

funny also when caldwell came back for the 2013 season how joe was awful when everyone else here was like '' now joe will be elite, caldwell and him meshed''.

 

there is NO guarantee that kubiak had he stayed would have been able to have saved us from flacco's ineptitude. 

He has like one really bad game against the team Kubiak coached for nearly a decade. And against the Bengals I think who he always plays bad against. I'd have to look to be sure but it was a career best for him in nearly every area. And that was with Torrey smith Steve smith and Owen Daniels. Not slouches but hardly comparable to weapons of Brady, Ben and others. And Forster the one year wonder. 

2 minutes ago, Sami84 said:

:/ 

hate bias. Whatever..Joe could have any offesnive co-ordinator and he would mess up. He had bad games under kubiak too btw. ( which is hard to do)

How is that bias? The receiver you mention wasn't open. Not open enough to make it worth mentioning at least. It would have been a right throw and likely knocked down or out. Joe misread and forced a ball, which wouldn't have happened had we lined up correctly on the previous play. 

There wasn't anyone open and every quarterback makes dumb throws like that. It happens. There's no excuse for it other than trying too hard which is better than not trying at all at least. 

Ben didn't get better. He is the same player he has always been just playing in a better system with consistent playmakers. 

I believe Joe does read the game but he isn't able to combat certain pressures and coverages the way he used to because he's not comfortable. It's pretty clear he isn't comfortable. 

You clearly haven't watched Ben for a long time. He's had seasons that made Steelers fans groan. His defense was just so much better than ours that he won a couple Super Bowls while playing wildly inconsistent. Only recently has he flipped a switch with consistent offensive production in the regular season, and there are clear reasons why - stability and quality at the playcallijg and receiving positions and a great all purpose back. And he still has stinkers like he did yesterday. 

I never claimed Flacco to be a high IQ quarterback but he's certainly not dumb either. His career proves that. 

For most most of his career the problem was not meshing good proper weapons with a compatible system. This year he's struggled mightily with his mechanics and blitz recognition. That's obvious to anyone watching the game. 

Throwing receivers open doesn't come this quickly with a lot of new targets. That takes time, practice and trust. It's not there yet. We've never given Joe a great receiver to grow with through out his career. Joe isn't Brady and doesn't play with an offensive genius like Belichick. He can't just make due with anything. That's not a knock on him because not many quarterbacks are Brady. Joe's more comparable to Ben to be honest. He's a less mobile but more durable version of Ben. And that's good company. Ben has had his struggles too. Then he got a good offensive coordinator and consistent weapons to grow with and he's flourished. Joe needs the same. And time to relearn everything after the injury.