3-4ravdef509

I'd pay money to continue using these boards honestly. I rely on these boards for news and analysis over any other site or media, including the team site. 

Disappointed. 

What's the overall consensus of where most members here are going to migrate to?

Saw some speculation on LFW today about the possibility of cutting Wallace due to cap savings and potentially able to replicate his production/a down field threat for cheaper, with Torrey Smith being a potential cap casualty with the 49ers as a possibility. 

So, who would we prefer? What money would Torrey want and would we benefit more woth Wallaxe at his current cap hit or Torrey for potentially less?

Bad luck. Plain and simple.

No seriously, that's literally it. 

We only played a couple bad games, and we still played our way back in those to almost win. 

Sometimes the ball just doesn't bounce your way.

That's not to say we don't have flaws, but only two teams are close to being elite, and one has gone the whole year with a rookie qb and the other lost it's best receiving weapon. Everyone else has flaws just like us, and we just had some bad breaks in some close games

The run game had good YPC average on paper, but for the first half of the year the running game was uninspiring. When it started to show life, we couldn't replicate it correctly. There were a couple games where playcalling came into question and we barely ran ball, but for the most part the running game didn't show up consistently, more like bursts of good runs usually late in games or randomly throughout. We often would start games out trying to establish the run, resulting in lots of 3rd and long situations which would prompt them to switch gears to try and pick up more yards on the early downs. 

1 hour ago, Hardbaugh said:

The Ravens had good weapons in the passing and running game. The problem is the game plan. To have success with Flacco the Ravens have got to be a run heavy team with a dose of play action and deep tosses sprinkled in, combined with a great defense that should get them back to the playoffs.

Whether the Ravens had the drafting skill (which I believe is vastly overrated) and money to make it happen is what I'm concerned about. If the high picks are spent on offense other than big game breaking running back expect more of the same because Flacco is what some thought he was and not what the majority here spent almost a decade spinning he was.

Was wondering where you've been lurking

1 minute ago, Tank 92 said:

LMAO!!!!    I didn't think to proof read a copy and pasted quote from Forbes.   smh

Yeah, very funny for a Forbes article to be riddled with so many silly typos and errors like that haha

Those saying Joe is overpaid...here's an interesting article http://www.forbes.com/sites/rogergroves/2016/12/12/yes-joe-flacco-may-really-be-worth-more-than-tom-brady/#46e118033cb4

2008, 2009, and 2010, the teams were very good but rightfully did not play in the AFC championship and win to go on to the Super Bowl. The teams in 2011 and 2012 we're both legitimately good enough to represent the AFC and I'd say they were the best team in the conference those years. 

15 minutes ago, Edgar said:

Your point about winning consistently being tough is well taken . This, "should have been two super bowls....." ( not just in your post) talk needs to stop.

This point is frequently put forth and it simply does not follow logically that this team makes a return to the Super Bowl the next year if Lee Evans makes a catch.

It's just wild speculation and doesn't attempt to account the myriad hypothetical scenario.

 

It's not saying that we definitely would've been if Lee Evans catches the ball, but rather just to illustrate how good the team was that two consecutive years they were good enough to represent the AFC in the Super Bowl

On 1/8/2017 at 4:36 AM, JoeyFlex5 said:

we havent exactly had the most fair sampling though. 2013: the team was totally dismantled, that team was a mess, we were in the middle of bryant mckinnies downward spiral and trying to transition to eugene monroe, we depended heavily on ray rice who clearly had taken a horrible left turn, torrey smith was our #1, our centers were historically bad, marlon brown was our #2... kinda hard to hold this one against joe, even though he didnt play well that year, its understandable. 

2014: things came together. kubiak came and was a great fit for joe. owen daniels played at a near pro bowl level and was an incredible security blanket. steve smith was a man possessed this season. our OL was elite and healthy for most of the year and was being coached in the best OL scheme of all time and we had a rb who executed the scheme to perfection. in this season joe played better than he ever had, everything worked, and our season ended with flacco once again playing lights out in the playoffs @pit and @NE, so much that he brought us 2 14 point leads in NE and the secondary blew it. 

2015: a disaster year. james hurst was starting at LT for most of the year. flacco had delivered 2 game winning TD passes perfectly into crockett gillmores hands and he blew it both times. we had zero pass protection once again. our revolving door of a wr corps consisted of kaelin clay and that guy we signed from STL(cant even remember his name a year later). joes top man went down midseason and a few weeks later he tore his acl because of his horrible OL play. 

2016: still recovering from said ACL, o-line is just as bad, if not worse, for the majority of the season. run game is historically bad for the franchise. game winning TDs dropped against the raiders and redskins. goes into the bye week hobbled and still recovering, clearly he improves along with the rest of the OL as he suddenly has better protection once stanley comes back and zuttah gets healthy again, he has a very strong second half to the season, does enough to get us into the playoffs minus a hiccup game vs NE where the gameplan was just totally broken and not in our favor, and in the end our defense lets us down and gets us eliminated. and in this same game he had 2 sure TD's dropped, one possible TD that wasnt played right, and a crucial 3rd down conversion missed inside the 5 because pitta inexplicably flailed his leg into the air and failed to get it down in bounds. definitely 2, possibly 3 or 4 TDs that never were, because his team let him down. this game was a blowout if these guys arent letting him down over and over. 

 

flaccos performance needs some context man. he isnt the best qb in the league, not by a long shot. but he isnt the problem with this team, dropped passes, horrible pass protection, injuries, and just a lack of talent in general are the problem with this team. flacco is let down by his players so much its sickening that the fans dont even realize it.

Winning consistently is tough. People don't realize that teams like the patriots are like once in a lifetime dynasties. 

In recent memory, the Steelers had a two to three-year skid after their second Super Bowl, and made an appearance in the third one and lost and then had a little skid after that. 

They lost to that Super Bowl to the Packers, who since then haven't enjoyed much success outside of the regular season and this year were very much exposed as being a team that relies on two players. 

Recent example of being consistently good outside the patriots might be the Seahawks but won one, lost one, and time will tell if they continue to be an elite team and make the right calls and adjustments to remain near the top. 

The ravens had a 6 year run of brilliance that should have resulted in two Super Bowl Appearances with a third near appearance by a rookie qb/head coach tandem. Since then the team has gone through major change and yet has only been completely out of the playoff picture by December in one year. It's been four years...I'm thinking next year might see a resurgent Ravens if the FO makes good decisions in coaching, FA and the draft. Only teams like the Ravens and Steelers can rebuild while still remaining in the picture and playing competitively. 

On 1/4/2017 at 1:06 AM, Tru11 said:

yup.
Give him a solid o-line , a vet/rookie receiver or both to go with the current guys and he would have very few excuses to not raise his level of play.

This is the truest statement I have seen from you or anyone else. doesnt ineed an elite system, he doesn't even need elite weapons or an elite running game, he's shown that if you give him time he will get it done with any supporting cast around him.  Hopefully we continue to invest more into our offensive line, I think that maybe adding a veteran Garcon into the mix would be enough to make our receiving corps adequate, I like our running back's, and if the offenseive line improves the offense should take off assuming Joe plays well. 

Joe just isn't consistently good enough in his mobility and pocket presence to deal with a mediocre line like Ben and Aaron have at times in their careers. Joe shows flashes of mobility and pocket awareness but not enough to bet on it 

16 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Dean Pees did a little bit of everything on that final drive. He played zone, press, off, blitzed, bluffed who he was bringing, brought four, and anything you can think of. The defense just got flat out beat. 

Todd Haley just saw a weak link in Wright and went for it. The Ravens pass rush heavy packages (Suggs, Jernigan, Doom, Judon) couldn't get it done.

Offensively, no excuse to get into Steelers territory five times in the first half and get no points. No excuse to start on the forty twice and in the red zone twice and net 10 points. The defense gifted 10 points to the offense, but for the most part, the offense was largely ineffective. They could move the ball, but not finish.

This was a team loss. No unit lost the game. It was both sides of the ball and special teams with that blocked FG.

Couple of dropped passes and missed blocks kept the offense from scoring at least 11 more points. 

4 minutes ago, Ravenseconbeast said:

Cj mosley and Orr handed Joe to steelers territory.  Without it, Joe had 1 good drive.  1 TD out of all that opportunity and instead dud joe got Tucker scoring majority of the points.

Vs. Eagles last week.  Our defense literally hand-plated Joe 2 TD right on eagle's endzone.  Without it, Joe did didly squat last week.   

Are we just ignoring the dropped passes and touchdowns??

Joe isn't the problem. 

1 minute ago, Ravenseconbeast said:

You wont win with passing 1 TD vs. Steelers.   And you can't win having Steeler score 31 pts.   

Not having Jimmy hurt us keeping Powers as #2 and Tavon as #1.   

SSS who is our best receiver is gone.  With Flacco being the worst efficient 3rd down passer in the league, not having Steve is going to hurt next year.   

We need to get back to our roots and get back to 'right player right price'   Clean up the gunk, and that starts with Flacco shaving his massive contract.  B/C he is a dud QB.  We could also shave off ton off ineffective DBs that hasn't done squat(kendrick lewis/arrington) as well as Watson.  

Create a room to bring in playmakers into this team.  We need major TALENT in the team.   Not 'good boys' but PLAYMAKERS.    We'll see what happens next year.

Flacco did everything anybody could to give his team a chance to win. The defense bent for three touchdowns in the fourth quarter. That's unacceptable and not Joe's fault. 

Joe Flacco thread = get your popcorn ready 

1 hour ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I think he got away from his mechanics in the New England game (which is weird since they hardly pressured him...) and the Eagles were getting so much pressure that it was probably a bit uncomfortable with that knee, but I can agree that if you look from the Browns game to Miami, he just got progressively better.

I think the Steelers and Bengals are two games where the offensive line can get back to how it was playing prior to these last two games and give Joe back that confidence he was recapturing.

Yeah, I think we are in agreeance here, NE he was a little off but I think NE also just schemed us really well and we seemingly didn't adapt to it or try to run the ball more.

Eagles game I thought given the pressure and play of their defense Joe played well, but I can see your points to, just a matter of perspective and how the pieces around him affect everything as well that we might disagree on. I certainly don't think Joe is immune to criticism, heck, look last year and year before I've taken long hiatuses from this board because people got on me for criticizing Joe at times. I love him, at his best and his worst I'd ride with him as our quarterback. This year I'm a little more lax because of last years injury and also all the other changes around him. 

10 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

So, I went back and watched the game and paid particular attention to some of your notes on how you thought the game went.

On that 3rd and 17, Flacco had time and that was a throw he should be able to make. Wallace had the room to make the catch and an accurate throw converts. It would have been a difficult throw, but nothing Joe is incapable of making.

Have to entirely disagree with #4. It would have been a hell of a catch with the linebacker coming down onto Smith, but Flacco put that too far in front and low. I think SSS maybe got a finger on it, but it was not a drop. 

With number five, it wasn't a drop. It was actually good ball placement, but Mills just had really tight coverage and made a good play on the ball.

With the Dixon drop, it's what I was saying- Way high over his head. Is it a catch he can make? Absolutely. However, that ball was well over his head to the point that he had to jump. That's also a situation where Flacco's mechanics broke down. He had a chance to set his feet and deliver a strike. Probably would have taken a hit, but it would have been completed with room to run. Instead, Flacco did some weird shimmy and just chucked it out there.

As far as the Dixon and SSS "drops" go, those aren't egregious drops like the Perriman one where it squarely hit him in both hands around the numbers in the middle of his frame. Those were poor ball placements that didn't help out the receivers at all.

On that deep pass, Flacco had time to set his feet, but he panicked and threw off his back foot with very goofy form. He just kinda chucked that one up there with a prayer. He had a player getting pushed into his lap, but he wasn't facing an impending sack. Again, stay in there.

With Camp, not an immensely easy catch. He's trying to fade out deeper down the field and it's just dropped short and low. When you're momentum carries you away, it doesn't help to have a low and behind catch. Still a catch he can make, but it goes back to ball placement.

On the SSS drop before the big Wallace play, SSS was starting to spin to the outside to create some room and Flacco threw it inside, so it was behind. Just a miscommunication between quarterback and receiver. Would have been a pretty decent throw had SSS stayed put.

But the even bigger issue for me after watching it again is Flacco is throwing so frequently within 5 yards of the LoS. He's just not taking these shots, and when he is, they're just off placement. 

I don't want to make this a huge argument. The game is over and done with, but I wish we'd stop trying to absolve Flacco of blame. He isn't playing well this year on a consistent basis. We see these absolute brilliant flashes (Miami, that dime to SSS before the half) and then we see these real head scratchers and it just intensifies that Jekkyl and Hyde argument that so many have about Flacco. 

I feel like the inconsistencies are even worse this year than ever before, but he is absolutely capable of playing better and I really hope January Joe shows up here on Sunday. The Ravens really need him if Jimmy can't go. And again, I support Flacco until the bitter end, so these aren't shots at him. I just know he can play much better.

 

Some of these examples you say are poor pass placement I think are either results of not being on same page with receiver/back, and others I think you're being a little picky or harsh on but we can agree to disagree. Not every pass will be exactly on target and Joe has looked much better in the pocket and mechanic/accuracy wise second half of the season compared to the first half. 

Joe has said he feels the strength of the team is the short passing game. I can agree with that but I'd like to see more exploitation of speed deep down the field then we currently do... Anyone else feel like if Cam Cameron was here he's have this offense rolling? This offense is built for running and deep shots with our running backs and speedy receivers, but somehow we've leaned on the short passing game and it has been effective at times to be fair. 

@flynismo has said it often and so have I, not to hijack the thread, but we truly should just run a "pick your poision" offense. We can excel at many different forms of offensive strategy, and we should tailor game plans to opponents but also adapt in game to defenses. This is sort of what NE does, but it's more because of their insanely smart and talented coaching. If we had more consistency and quality in our coaching staff and kept a personnel like this, we could easily be the most versatile and dangerous offense in the league. But we seem to struggle at in game adjustments most of the time, probably because of the lack of the things i just mentioned.

7 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I love Joe Flacco to death for the Ravens and am extremely grateful that I got to witness a Super Bowl because of his play, but yeah, he is not immune to such criticisms and it's really awful that if you criticize his play, you must hate him or be blind.

No, I don't think you're any of that. But I disagree with how you're evaluating him in this instance

3 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Again, it doesn't really matter to me if he has incompletions or not. Like you said, that is a part of the game. It's the high and away throws that are difficult for receivers to catch, even if they do haul them in. It's the general poor placement of footballs, even if they are caught. 

Flacco hasn't been one at all this season to really put his players in a position to succeed. 

I think you'd struggle to find any paid professional who actually thinks Flacco played well.

His ball placement was bad early this year. He's been solid past 6-8 games. Yesterday I don't recall any bad throws or placements that weren't either influenced by heavy pressure or purposely thrown high balls into coverage except one to Smith. 

No, i didnt justify anything. I showed there barely were any. Every qb will miss a couple passes, actually more than a couple most of the time. We only attempted a handful of deep plays and one was a touchdown. The rest really didn't amount but I think it was like maybe 5 or 6 at most past 9 yards because we attempted everything else short because of play design and how the defense was playing

Only three middle or deep incompletions (past 9 yards as you say) that were due to inaccuracy, #2 was 3rd and 17 and good coverage, Joe just tried to put it only where it could be caught, #8 there was pressure and #3 was actually a bad throw but that's one time.

2 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

That's from PFF, whom I trust because they use All-22 to actually watch the games. Regardless of grades, they do track each individual play, so...

And I know the offensive line wasn't consistently pass blocking well (Ducasse got owned by Cox), but this isn't an isolated incident of poor mechanics or accuracy this season. This is an all the time issue this season going all the way back to week one. It's gotten steadily better from him until that Patriots game where his mechanics just looked out of tune again.

I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for the injury because there is something to be said for being in a live game with players going around your knees, but let's not act like this is the first game issues like these have cropped up.

Except i sort of already disproved the notion he was wildly inaccurate...

2 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Many would consider walking away from a game with the victory and a pair of touchdown passes to one interception a success. If, however, you have high postseason aspirations, your good feelings may need to be tempered when your quarterback completes only three-of-nine attempts farther than 9 yards downfield, and produces only 3.8 yards per target on 22 dropbacks when provided with a clean pocket.

Not sure where you are getting your stats. But you take what the defense give you. We ran the ball much more than we passed. and when we passed we weren't flashy but we were efficient and scoring and that's what matters. We only had the ball for 23 minutes and during that span we had some terrible field position and poor play by the rest of the offense when it came to pass protecting and running routes and catching balls. Our receivers are not elite route runners, only Smith runs decent routes consistently and teams know that. Even with our deficiencies, we ran a good ground attack and Joe complimented it well. The game plan nor the defenses we were getting dictated for Joe to throw down the field much at all, they ran a plan similar to the Patriots, but this time we countered well by deciding to run the ball and executing the short passing game better than we did last week.