zing21042

Just to clarify... he's not going to have a $16M cap number in year. The $16M is how much he will get paid. Likely means a large signing bonus. By comparison, in 2013 when Joe signed his first mega contract, we paid him $30M in his first year (a $29M signing bonus and a $1M salary), and his cap number was merely $6.8M that year. Joe made $29M last year from us as well, despite a cap number of $22.55M. I would actually bet that Garcon's cap number for 2017 will be around $10M or maybe a little less. They could in theory front load the crap out of it, given the cap space they have, but I would be stunned if they take all of that impact in the first year. You say either I say "eye-ther". The Ravens could ill-afford either (eye-ther) price.

"Report: 49ers expected to sign former Redskins WR Pierre Garcon" "The San Francisco 49ers have the second-most cap space in the NFL, and they’ve not going to be shy about using it. According to ESPN and multiple reports, they’re working toward signing wide receiver Pierre Garcon to a deal that would pay him $16 million in his first year with the team." Case closed. Even if they don't sign him, we can't come anywhere close to that number so someone else will. Like I said...look to Aiken if he is even willing to stick around. He will be a lot cheaper than Marshall and Garcon and more than capable of doing the job.

The Obvious: The problem could have been solved rather easily. I have touted that Aiken should have been offered a deal...I think we just let him walk which was a mistake. We could have kept him for a decent price and not gone overboard on the FA market; he was a perfect replacement for Smith. This would have left us with basically filling the offensive line position vacated by Wagner and then focusing what moneys we had left on the holes in our defense. Squeeze the Juice out: The Juice's prowess as a receiver could be replaced by a TE and Juice is not the blocker that this position commands. Most teams don't even use the FB so maybe it is time the Ravens save the money, save the position, move to the 21st century and look for a blocking running back rather than a universal back who was rarely used to run the ball. The Problem: I do not know how one evaluates the totality of our offensive capabilities in the absence of a quarterback capable of using the weapons provided him. The only thing that needed correcting on our offense was the mindset of the QB. Asked another way, do you really think our record would have been 8-8 (or worse) had Rothlesberger, Brady, Prescott, Dalton, Ryan, Luck, Rodgers, Wilson, Carr, Cousins or a fistful of other QBs been with the Ravens last year and all else remained exactly the same...including the merry-go-round on the offensive line? The weapons were in place to get us to the playoffs; the mindset of the QB was not. The Mistake: The front office is trying to provide Flacco with "weapons" but fails to realize that "You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear". Next year, Flacco will again be Flacco, so why not try and win with a stellar defense and hope Flacco does not turn the ball over as much.

I'm quite sure Garcon will receive offers way out of the range we can afford. Garcon is IMHO a pipe dream. being at the bottom rung of the pecking pool with respect to salary cap, who can't out bid us in FA? That is also why the age of our team is increasing rather than decreasing. We need to get some young blood. After the first year, renegotiate a reasonable long term contract for the good players rather then loose them to nosebleed offers after the 4 year rookie contract.

Apples to apples...stay with Wallace. As a first year player unfamiliar with out system he performed extremely well. Also, I am not sure you will same anything by swapping the two. Can't believe that Smith will go from a $10 mil/year contact to less than $5 mil/year. There are a lot of teams that need wide receivers and in the end, he will still command a better price than we are paying Wallace. The bigger question is what do we do with Wallace when his contract expires.

Problem is that the "projected cap" is based upon current salary commitments. So, right now, Williams, Wagner and Aiken together do not add up to $5 million. In FA we are looking at any one of a number of single players with financial baggage that will far exceed the $5 mil we will be saving by releasing the three musketeers. In my opinion, the biggest misstep is releasing Aiken. He is taking the blame for not being targeted by Flacco; much the same way that Torry Smith's poor numbers in San Francisco are being blamed on him rather than his QBs. When given the chance, Aiken rose to the occasion. He plays with the same tenacity as Steve Smith Sr. Mark my words, this move will come back to haunt the Ravens; especially if he remains in the division. As for Williams and Wagner, I predicted they were gone before the contract talks even began. This has happened and will continue to happen as long as the Ravens work so tight against the cap and as long as the Ravens have the mindset that their time is running out to get back to the Super Bowl. Rather than drafting and grooming rookies they will look to FA which is ultra expensive. The only FAs that get released are the ones that stink or the team can no longer afford. So, with an overpaid pseudo rookie QB at the helm, the outcome will remain the same no matter what you surround him with. Flacco had a pretty good arsenal of receivers last year; but, if you can't see them or you don't look for them....you can't pass to them.

You would have to use a high rounder in order in order to increase the odds of him actually becoming a successful starter. Once the fourth round comes around it's going to be slim pickins as far as quarterbacks go. I was under the impression your goal was to draft a guy that would be able to take the reigns from Joe in the next few year, but if the type of young blood you are looking for is in the last 3 rounds you may get be in luck. Taking a QB then is actually a plausible scenario, but statistically the chances that he takes over the starting gig from Flacco are very very small. And yes Flacco will be our QB for this year and most likely the next and most likely the year after that. Im warning you ahead of time so you dont get disapointed. Bill, R-u-kidding me? Disappointed? Look at the numbers? They say that just about any QB in football could have (did) play better than Joe. It says that with 26 of the other 31 QBs (including rookies) we would have had the same or better year had they played with the ravens. How is it even possible that one can pay a QB to be the second/third highest player in football and have him generate a quality of play like he was the last? Joe runs the 2 minute offense like it is the 2 quarter offense. Granted, maybe the ravens have never been good at training QBs. But my god man, he has regressed rather than advanced in his fundamentals. He had the "weapons" this year but chose not to use them. It is not the fault of the wide receivers that "checkdown joe" fell in love with Pita all over again. And now you say don't be disappointed? How could I have been more disappointed by having a rookie QB play like Joe and be paid like a rookie? At least I can justify a rookie playing like a rookie; not a $28 million seasoned QB playing like a rookie.

I guess that's way Mallett is on his 3rd team in 7 seasons, after getting kicked off the Texans in mid-season. Playing the devil's advocate, I think we should start looking farther ahead than one year. Since the SB, Flacco's performance has been lackluster at best. Even that year, his play-off performance was exceptional, but his performance during the regular season was...OK. I think we need to start grooming a young QB to take over, rather than "fill-in" for Flacco. The Flaccman has engendered some bad habits over the past few years that we will see again next year. He had weapons last year but did not use them because his mantra became "Checkdown Charlie". Expect to see that next year as well. Flacco has lost the ability to survey and look down field. He has become more concerned with getting hit. Unlike other QBs, Flacco needs and takes a lot of time in the pocket that our offensive line cannot give him. I do not blame the line...they give him enough time, just not as much as he needs. We require some young, hungry blood that is not afraid of taking risks. Clearly, that is not Flacco. It may have been at one time, but no longer. I am all for a draft pick; high or low and start distancing ourselves from loosers. Of note, Brady, Rothlesberger, Prescott, Cunningham, Rivers, Steve Young, Doug Flutie....the list is long of young back-up QBs who displaced their "first string QBs" and went on to great careers. The time is ripe for the Ravens to follow suit. That would be a huge mistake. Are you really suggesting that we should spend a first or a second on a QB this year? I mean those are the rounds where starting QBs are found? Drafting QBs is a far from a sure thing though. There is less than a 50 percent chance that a QB picked in the first round will be successful and it goes downhill from there. And when you factor in the fact that this is such a weak class in the QB department, taking a QB high just doesn't make sense. We have plenty of other holes that need filling. Wasting a high round pick on a QB isn't an option on the table, but we could take one in the later round. But don't expect a QB taken late to become the heir apparent to Flacco. I also think there is some selective remembrance going on here and yea two years without a playoff run does that (for Ravens fans at least). Flacco had arguably his best season in 2014 which was 2 years after the superbowl. 1) Where did I say that we should use a first round pick on a QB? 2) We have had quite a few first round picks that have been busts and they were not QBs. 3) Nothing is a "sure thing. On defense we have been just as successful with undrafted FA as we have been with early draft picks. 4) Great. Flacco had another stellar year...but his completion percentage was mediocre that year also. What about the plethora of lackluster years? 5) We can agree to disagree...but we need some young blood. Flacco will not be our solution going forward.

I guess that's way Mallett is on his 3rd team in 7 seasons, after getting kicked off the Texans in mid-season. Playing the devil's advocate, I think we should start looking farther ahead than one year. Since the SB, Flacco's performance has been lackluster at best. Even that year, his play-off performance was exceptional, but his performance during the regular season was...OK. I think we need to start grooming a young QB to take over, rather than "fill-in" for Flacco. The Flaccman has engendered some bad habits over the past few years that we will see again next year. He had weapons last year but did not use them because his mantra became "Checkdown Charlie". Expect to see that next year as well. Flacco has lost the ability to survey and look down field. He has become more concerned with getting hit. Unlike other QBs, Flacco needs and takes a lot of time in the pocket that our offensive line cannot give him. I do not blame the line...they give him enough time, just not as much as he needs. We require some young, hungry blood that is not afraid of taking risks. Clearly, that is not Flacco. It may have been at one time, but no longer. I am all for a draft pick; high or low and start distancing ourselves from loosers. Of note, Brady, Rothlesberger, Prescott, Cunningham, Rivers, Steve Young, Doug Flutie....the list is long of young back-up QBs who displaced their "first string QBs" and went on to great careers. The time is ripe for the Ravens to follow suit.

Agreed, we have 3 RG on the team now that all can play well. Nembot, Jenson and Urschel. both Jenson and Urschel are also back up Centers. So the Ravens could pick up Elflein the best center in the draft/ college and potentially have the best O-line in the NFL.Could even be better than Dallas if all of them can stay on the field. The cost is low too! leaves money for a RB and WR And I still would rather have Williams than Wagner for the Ravens situation. Especially if it comes down to only one of them, the issue is they both are playing with fire because the Ravens can replace both of them! It may just happen and in that case, Bring on the Young bucks and pay for a couple big playmakers! They will be sorry when they go to non-playoff teams and the Ravens stay healthy. Forget it. The draft is filled with defensive players this year. Choices at offensive lineman are thin. The Ravens feel they have a better chance of filling the defensive line position than the offensive line. Also, they want no excuses next year for any poor play from the Flaccman. Best case scenario; Williams walks Wagner signs. My prediction...both walk.

Ravenous, I do not see how they can sign BW or Wagner. The $15 mil cap space right now does not include any future contracts with either player and both have played on miniscule contracts till now. Collectively they earned $3.5 mil last year. Next year, just one of them will get 3 times that value. Granted, the cap will expand just because it goes up every year. But it won't help that much; every other teams will increase as well. If memory serves, Williams is part of a 3 man rotation that includes Pierce. The ravens will allow Williams to walk, move Pierce in to take his place then fill the rotation gap in the draft. That is a lock. Plan on both BW or Wagner leaving. The ravens are fast becoming the farm club team of the NFL. We invest 4 years generating great rookies only to find we cannot afford to keep them so they move on to more lucrative contracts. Expect the same to happen this year. We need to jettison the expensive players; generate a good and broad rookie class, then plan to have the money later to sign the good ones to long term deals. The way our division is setting up, the Browns will have the money to hire anyone and everyone in FA. With the cap space they have ($100 mil+) they can easily afford to add a ton of quality FAs long before the draft. Expect that to happen. Last year was Hue Jackson's trial year to determine who he wanted to keep and who he wanted to pitch for this year. Now he knows what he has to work with. You can bet that the Brown's will be active in FA and are 1-2 years away of being a serious problem in our division. JMHO

I can promise you filling the stadium is not an issue, we had 100% capacity last year. Every position cant be a play-maker, that's just not realistic. I can also promise you we have never signed someone based on the possibility of attendance increasing. A simple google search can reveal a lot of info, like... I don't know...facts. From 2008 on (I didn't go back further) we have been basically at a 100% attendance. http://www.espn.com/nfl/attendance/_/year/2008 We have no issues filling the seats. I am with you on the first paragraph, I have no issues bringing in older vets that know how to do their job and provide that veteran presence. Imagine if we could of got SSr about two years sooner. So yea, I am with you on most of that paragraph. The next paragraph, not so much. We have plenty of people that have no issue calling people out because they haven't done their job, I have seen Joe do it numerous times. But here's a news flash, Joe is not Tom Brady, he never will be. And this whole overpaid thing is just not accurate, like many have discussed on here, as do I, its called "market value." The only other option was to let Joe walk after he just had the best post-season of a QB in NFL history (tied with Montana), I don't know how you could justify that. Also didn't help we got rid of his favorite target in Boldin and expected Pitta to step up more, and got hurt. I am one of the people that think the FO has not done a sufficient job at give Joe weapons around him. The moment he would of hit FA he would of most likely got paid more by teams like Oakland, Cleveland, Jacksonville, etc...its simple economics. usmccharles = eric dacosta Three years ago if you had asked the fans who was the team leader on the Ravens, one name would float to the top with a couple close seconds. Today...Ask the fans who is the team leader and if you asked 20 fans you would get 20 different answers. I agree that Flacco is no Tom Brady...functionally...but he also is not a team leader and does not play this game with any level of passion or urgency. You cannot tell me that you feel his 2 minute offense is any different than his 60 minute offense. His concept of running the hurry-up offense is to take 30 seconds to hike the ball instead of 40 seconds; that does not bode well when there are only 60 seconds on the clock. Rothlesberger beat us with 57 seconds and no time outs. You are correct...the Ravens priced Joe's market value based upon his post-season play of 4 games; not his normal season play of 16 games. Had that entered the mix, they would have seen things differently. His QB rating that year (\which I assume included his stellar post season play) was only a few points higher than this year. How many times did Joe even throw a ball past 20 yards this year? Hey, we dumped Trent Dilfer after winning the 2000 SB. His play was not bad...just average. Also, we did not need exceptional play from a quarterback that year; our defense won the SB. Regardless of Joe's salary,the problem is that forever, the Ravens have not managed their funds very well. Every year we loose the best in the league to salary cap and we pay for it; this year will be no different. We will lose 3 probowl players. Also, I disagree...this year we had some damn good receivers; Joe just decided not to look for them. So is that the fault of the receiver?

Then the decision is really out of Ravens hands. As noted on another thread, neither Wagner nor Williams will be playing with the Ravens next year. With Flacco's contract and the small amount of cap space available, there is no way we will be able to compete with other teams that need these positions filled. That is not the Raven's mantra. Case in point, the Browns have the cap space ($100+ million) to hire 7-10 probowlers from free agency and could probably use both these positions. Even the Patriots have $65 million in cap space. If the Juice wants too much money...let him walk too. The primary role of this position is blocking and in this capacity he was mediocre at best. If doing such a great job, why was our run came so miserable? Where were the holes? Why such a poor red zone run performance? Looking at the tapes, most of his benefits to the Ravens was as a receiver...that can be filled by TEs and the other running backs. If he leaves we will not miss him. I like him, but we no longer utilized this position to its capacity. Pita should also be let go. Great story...can't fault him on that; but business is business. He is a lousy blocker and any TE should be able to catch a ball 8.7 yards down field (average for the Flacco/Pita tandem). Being the #1 TE in the league was not a testament to Pita but indicative of a QB that has lost confidence, afraid to look down field and afraid of getting hit. Let them all go.

1. Ben Watson won't be on this team in 2017. 2. Neither will Vernon Davis 3. Both for mostly the same reason. Thanks for making my point. I would rather take Verrnon Davis than any of the scrubs TEs we have now. Why do we even bother bringing in Watson on a one year rental contract? These moves by Ozzie drive fans crazy- play makers fill the stadium - not 37 yr old TEs - I know we're crippled by bad drafts but still.. It's like the safety position for us- we have drafted so many safeties over the years but Oz still can't find a good one through the draft- maybe the real problem is the FO I think that many are missing the point. I would rather a team of Steve Smith Sr's (37 yrs old), Anquan Bolden's (36 years old ), Tom Bradys (40 yrs old at the beginning of next season), and James Harrisons (38 yrs old) than a bunch of young Perrimans. Age (within reason) is not the deciding factor. Yanda (32) has been Probowl quality since day 1; Zuttah (30) belongs with the fishes. The players listed above play with conviction and passion. They play with heart. These are characters you simply cannot teach and it is something that is lacking on both sides of the ball in the Ravens, especially since we now lost Smith Sr. When we lost some of our greats i.e. Lewis and Read, we also lost the soul of this team. That is something that we need to find to become winners again. We no longer have leaders to call out the youngsters and tell them to shape up; to get the job done. Instead, we have an overpaid "Cool Joe". As much as I hate Brady, when his receivers screw up, he is all over them. Joe, he just sits on the bench hoping for a defensive stop. So, while I understand from where the age thing is coming, in my mind a productive and passionate player on social security, is far better than a young player who ends up on injured reserve every time the wind changes direction.

Bigg, Expect that the Ravens will lose both Williams and Wagner. Looking at their history, the big ticket players more often than not (nearly always) find new homes. In recent years...Troy Smith, Bolden, Osemele, Ngata, J. Jones, Kruger, Dicksen, Scott, J. lewis...the list is long. This year you can add to it Williams and Wagner, and next year Jernigan until we can get out from under Flacco's contract. One can argue in many cases, the lackluster benefits to the teams that got these FAs; however, this is a cr@p shoot...one can never predict how a player will adapt to a new system i.e. Reed, J. Lewis, T. Smith, P. Kruger. The Ravens have seen this first hand. But the writing is already on the wall; Wagner already rejected the Ravens first offer. I am not expecting that either of these will remain; especially with the Ravens cap space among the lowest in the NFL (of note...the Patriots have among the highest cap spaces available in the NFL...go figure!!!). I think the biggest mistake is Aiken. He played remarkably well in 2015 when he was given the opportunity to play. This year, his time was severely limited as were his catches. But when you have a quarter back who measures his successes by how many times he throws to Pita, who can compete with that? Why is that Aiken's fault? In 2015. Aiken played with the same passion that we have seen in Steve Smith and it went unnoticed. His leaving the Ravens will come back to haunt us...I guarantee it.