raven94

Ok wait a second. I just found your best and then regular mock. My former comment was just about the worst one. Your other mocks are a little more satisfying, but lately I've been leaning away from Desmond king. I'm not sure if he's going to become a player who can help the secondary fix it's current issues as a CB, and I honestly don't want him as a safety. I feel like there are guys who are proven safeties who I'd rather have over him

I agree with Flex on this one. Even if my top 15 guys all go ahead of the Ravens pick I still have at least 10 other guys I think I would take ahead of Conley. In my own personal mock (will publish by request, 3 rounds) I have Conley going anywhere between late 1st and late 2nd. If I'm sticking at 16 I'd take someone else. I've said this once a while ago, there are many amazing players in this draft. There are literally 45 guys who deserve to be first rounders and then like another 30 or 40 who deserve to be 2nd rounders. However I do like that you address needs with decent players. I don't know if we need to take two Tackles though.

13 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

I think you just gotta weigh the ups and downs accordingly. We have always had top shelf run defenders, we've lacked a speed rusher for years though, and you usually don't draft an edge defender in the first round for his run defense unless you really need a boost against the run. 

Hes not my first choice, but I would have no problems with him at 16 because he brings something we desperately need 

Well........ that is certainly a fair assessment. There's nothing wrong with your logic there and it's a difference of opinion. For me it's just a little too much of a reach at 16. For me I would consider him after 24. Anyway as far as pass rushers go I would like Tim Williams, but I've been waffling about where. If we could get him in Rd 2 that would be a steal. I would like to go CB in round 1 and then T. Williams in 2. We'll  see what happens though

1 hour ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Harris is a bad run defender I won't argue it, his decision making is horrible in that regard. But then again we have enough run stoppers 

That is an excellent point, but with our first round pick I think you need to try and acquire a complete player. I don't think I would take Harris just for his pass rush in the 1st round. 2nd? That would definitely be hard to pass on, and I do believe Harris' deficiencies can be coached out of him

16 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

I'd rather we give Dixon a full go in 2017 and roll the dice on saquon Barkley next year. 

I agree, and doesn't even need to be Barkley (who's fantastic by the way), there's also Guice (LSU), Scarbrough and Harris (Bama), Freeman (Oregon), Ronald Jones (USC), Gaskin (UW), Rawleigh Williams III (Arkansas) etc....

Next year's running back class will be just as good as this one. So I'm all for building a good defensive team with a balanced offense with a good OL in this draft and then maybe taking luxuries next year. This year there's too many good players at positions that normally don't have great players fall out of the top 5, I'm talking about pass rush and CB. Normally the best prospects are gone by 10. This year we can get a top PR or CB. Can't pass that up

3 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Charles Harris does really well as a standup rusher. Against vandy he had 4 standup rush snaps that I recall, he got a sack on one, got a hand on the qbs throwing arm on one, got a hand on the qb on another, and the other one he was deep in the pocket. 

I nevernoticed that and always thought he had played pure DE

Yeah, Harris does stand up on occasion and as far as pass rushing goes he's excellent either stand up or hand in dirt. I just can't get over how bad his rush defense is. People on here like to criticize Tim Williams for poor run defense (which I actually think he has solid run defense in him, just watch against LSU) Charles Harris has some POOR run defense. At least in any of the 2016 game film I've watched of him (which is every game except for him vs kentucky). Which is why I got confused when people on here started to heat up on Harris? Please show me good run defense film of Harris and I'll change my mind.  

22 minutes ago, PurpleHorseman said:

Juice isn't nearly the athlete Engram is. Engram is very elusive in the open and catches like a receiver can.

Correct, but contrary to your previous comment earlier, Engram isn't that good of a blocker. He will actually be a liability in any sort of protection capacity. so that does limit his versatility. I can cite about 6 or 7 plays in about 8 different games this year where he did a poor job of blocking and nearly got his RB/QB killed. However I do agree with you that his size speed combo on top of his quick twitchiness in space and elusivity makes him incredibly interesting as a prospect. He's expected to blow up the combine. If he does that then he may get viewed as 1st rounder.

2 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

i think shepard looked far more refined and more sure handed, ross reminds me a lot of, and im not saying this just because hes a former ravens burner, torrey smith. does a lot of over the shoulder catches on fly routes, occasionally makes an impressive catch but never really blows anyones mind with his hands, routes need work. meh, i just personally think hes another above average burner, which is fine but not my cup of tea. 

baker is instinctive as hell, probably the most explosive db in the class, and if he can continue playing bigger than his size at the next level i think he could compete with adams and hooker, the 5'9" frame and short arms are gonna be a hindrance but he just does everything so well.

Baker isn't 5'9 is he? I thought he was more of the 5'10 and a half kind of guy. I wouldn't mind him either. He brings energy and speed which is exactly what Ed Reed did so well. Would love Budda, but I think there will be better players available around our 2nd

2 hours ago, PurpleHorseman said:

I like Malachi Dupre and Dede a lot

Malachi is a very interesting prospect. He's got pretty darn good speed, decent agility, he's a pretty good catcher, he runs good routes most of the time, and he's long and just naturally athletic. However his development at LSU was subpar and it hindered him, plus it was a run first and always scheme under miles. On top of that they never had a decent QB until this year and by then it's too late. Not a good blocker either. I'd take him around 3 just because that's where he's projected, but I can easily make the case he deserves a 2nd round grade

5 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

watching voch lombardi on corey davis and he pointed out something i never knew, davis has really big hands, once the ball comes to his hands you cant see either nose of the ball anymore, he hands-catches, clamps down, and makes the ball disappear to the rest of the world. 

he doesnt do the best job of going up and getting it in tight coverage because it seems that his tenacity to the catch could be better and his body control could be better as well, but having those big strong hands means that he is capable of pulling off those tight catches more often than the average receiver. his ability to make tightly contested catches was always a concern i had for him, but noticing the big and strong hands makes me think less about that. 

and to be clear, im not saying hes bad in contested catches, im saying he could be better. and with those hands there is room for him to get better there(maybe some explosion and balance conditioning)

You are correct. But for the most part he does all of the really important things that a receiver needs to be successful really well. He has very savvy and great route running, he is a big body that has length (I'm curious about his vertical though, I want to know if he can go up and get the ball), he has underrated speed and agility although not a total burner, and yes his hands are what will make him special. I have a high grade on him and if he's there at 16 I would need a compelling argument/player there to convince me not to take him

You're correct in that he's not sudden in his routes but there are certain aspects to his YAC that indicate he does have a little quick twitch athleticism. In the end he can be an A.J. Green clone. Long strider, tremendous catch radius. But if he doesn't refine the aspects that you brought up then you're right he's kind of destined to be just another guy. However for what it's worth I think he matches up great against Pitt, Cincinnati, and Cleveland just because they don't have great safeties or CB's

14 hours ago, Prouty78 said:

what do people think for Josh Reynolds from Texas A + M ?

 

 

Much like the other comments made on JR he's a limited route runner, and is more quick than fast if anything, i.e. decent agility, not great straight line speed, not the best footwork for route running. This equates to a guy who can kind of run routes and make some catches. His bread and butter is the go route. Due to his long arms, decent hands, and good catch radius he makes a lot of contested catches down the sideline. However against NFL corners I don't know if that's going to work which means he'll be limited, won't have great practices and might not see the field. At best he becomes a slightly slower Martavis Bryant, at worst he flunks out. I'd take him in the 5th or 6th

2 hours ago, rossihunter2 said:

i might be late to the party on mike williams but i just assumed he was the best guy in the class before i really looked into it - then ive delved more into people like corey davis and he looks better and then finally ive actually watched a whole load of tape on mike williams and the more i watched the more i thought corey davis looked like the clear cut better prospect - i mean mike williams uses his physique well (like with yac and boxing out defenders) and is great at leverage and he extends well but he doesn't catch cleanly which makes the length he has less important because he really isnt a natural hands catcher, he only seems to get separation through leverage and some physicality which are obviously great traits to have but he feels quite 1-dimensional and way behind davis in terms of route running and just the different ways of getting open - i'm not worried about the speed per se but he doesnt really break well and he only has one real stem on most of his routes

im being overly critical here because i still think he's one of the clear top 2 guys but the more i watched both him and corey davis the more i thought he was lagging behind davis - am i missing something?

You're not missing anything. The consensus around here (and other places) is that Corey Davis is the more polished product at this point who has more variety and better hand catching ability, while Mike Williams is considered limited now but has a higher ceiling than Davis due to (IMO) better athleticism and speed

I'm in agreement with the other comments. There's changes I would make. I do consider myself a little bit of a Toth expert and he will be gone by 5 because that's where I have the Ravens picking him, and believe me that's a steal (talk about serious value). He's more than developmental. You can plug him in on day one and realistically he's solid, makes the calls, and will never lose the game for you. Optimistically he's phenomenal and rejuvenates the run game. If you want more analysis I can post it to the O line forum

I would probably make some changes to this draft, but you definitely know what the Ravens need. As far as cook goes, people aren't mocking him to us because of his off the field issues. Believe me everyone on this site pretty much loves him but he's got major red flag off the field issues. As for Toth I actually think he'll be terrific in the NFL. Yes he's a little tall but I've watched a lot of film on him and he's quick to engage off the snap, and while he doesn't leverage guys backwards off the LOS he does do good leveraging guys away from where the run is going. I've seen him use finesse as well as brute strength, he's played against some of the meanest defenses and defensive linemen in the country (Florida 2X, Alabama, Georgia, LSU) and done very well. He rarely if ever gets beaten on passing plays, he's a great communicator and reportedly an excellent student. I think he's perfect for what we want to do. And yes he can really only do center

1 hour ago, Somerset Ravens said:

Toth did look good.  What round do you think we could get him? 

I've been a big proponent of Toth for a long time now and based off of most mocks and everything else out there he's projected (like Jay Guillermo) to be a later round pick somewhere around 4-6. If I can wait until the 5th to get him I would call that a great deal. That would be a steal at that point

Ok that's fair. Either way I knew we would get a 3rd. KO may have had the 4th largest but it still equates to a 3rd Rd comp

I'm ok with this draft. I'm a huge fan of trading back and getting more picks, but in this scenario if you're telling me that we can't trade and all of my top guys are gone then sure I'll take Quincy. It addresses a need and isn't a reach at all. In regards to a 3rd round comp we will get a 3rd round comp. Comp's are actually based off of contracts that FA's sign, not so much the accolades and usefulness that they are tied to them. KO signed the 3rd largest contract last season and it was a doozy of a contract by the raiders. We will get a 3rd round comp. I also feel like in round 3 there will be plenty of stars and great players left to choose from. I'm not saying that Bowser isn't a good player but I think there will be better options available in round 3. I just hope people realize that there are at least 30-42 players who would get a 1st round grade, and there are probably about 40-50 players who would get a 2nd round grade. This draft is one of the more loaded drafts in recent memory. In your mocks don't be afraid to put someone in a lower round if it's congruent from what you see on tape or if you think he falls for some reason.

13 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

this may be irrelevant to 2017, but i just wanna say, saquan barkley looks better than any back in this class. 

just saw him for the first time and holy hell, this boy looks amazing.

Next year's running back class is just as talented (not as deep though) as this year's. I've made mocks before, including this year, with the mindset of what does this class have to offer and what does next year's class have to offer. That's not the correct way to do drafts according to Ozzie, but I always end up doing it anyway. 2018 has got good DB'S (also not as deep as this years), good RB, decent LB, and the best group next year is OL. One of the weakest groups next year is pass rush 

1 hour ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

i do too. im definitely not the type who clamors for a physical press corner, i prefer guys who play zone and off-man with great instincts, anticipation, breaking speed, and ball skills. but marshon lattimore who doesnt fit my preferences for corner, looks special. i still like sidney jones a lot, and i was beginning to warm up to quincy wilson but hes definitely behind lattimore at this point for me. 

sidney jones fits my personal preferences as a super fluid guy who plays all schemes at a high level, but lattimore is definitely a better talent. 

Well I too have preferences and I agree that I prefer someone who is fluid because that means they can handle good route runners (and maybe Antonio Brown a little) and it also means that they'll be in better position when the ball is in the air and they can make the play and they just adjust to the speed of the NFL better. Watching his film it seems to me that he has the potential and the capacity to develop tremendous fluidity to go along with his really long arms. On top of that it appears he has satisfactory quick twitch athleticism to really handle just about all types of NFL receivers. He's a suitable heir to Jimmy's spot as well as a great boundary CB while Jimmy is still here. Move Tavon to the slot and that makes for quite a group of CB's. Just make sure to add quality depth in round 4 or 5 and I'm satisfied by our DB group

15 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

just watched lattimore for the first time, only watched one game but im really impressed with him. 

i counted 3 bad plays in coverage, 2 were inconsequential. one was an early hold that went uncalled because he stutter stepped at the snap and had to recover, the other he tripped up going downfield on a fly route, the other he second guessed himself on a zone assignment when the LB had the RB in the flat and he jumped it and let the wr run downfield, the qb didnt look his way though.

he failed to get off the block on a reverse and gave up another 20 yards or so, but recovered to make the tackle downfield. 

aside from that he was stellar vs oklahoma, he appeared beaten on a really deep crossing route which the qb extended the play to a good 6-7 seconds in the backfield, the receiver got just one step to the right and top of him and baker mayfield led him decently on the throw, but lattimore showed an incredible burst of speed while already in full sprint and beat the receiver to the well placed ball for an amazing pick. 

later, a ball was thrown way over both of their heads but lattimore played it like a receiver, he laid out and extended for a spectacular diving catch. 

other than that he was untargeted all night for good reason, his man was absolutely blanketed, he pressed well and re-routed his man every time he attempted it, he was in the pocket on every tight man snap, never gave up an inch except for downfield situations in which case he gave very little space. he shows a good ability to prepare himself for any route, his footwork at the snap shows that he is reading the receiver and reading right, he mirrors the receivers every move, all the subtle twitches etc. are mirrored exactly, and when its time to get upfield he turns his hips quickly and confidently, good downfield speed, shifts momentum with ease when running stride for stride with a WR who makes a cut. i didnt see many, if any off-man snaps, he was mostly in tight or press which is fine because he excels there, and i did see him have a big mental lapse with one of the few zone snaps he played, so scheme diversity so far is a big issue for him, but as far as tight/press man coverage goes hes top tier for sure. 

personally i think he would be best served to return for another season, hes a top 10 pick, maybe top 5 type of cb if he develops his zone and off-man game. as of now i would take him at 16 in a heartbeat and hope he develops because that is a shutdown man cover corner, at least from what ive seen.

All draft declarations had to be in by Jan 16th. Marshon Lattimore said that he was entering the 2017 draft. I love him as a pick for the Ravens.