raven94

So let me ask this, are we ok with the Urschel/Jensen and the Wesley/Nembot possibility on the O line? I like Pat Elflein in the draft to help out with the C issue, but if we have a good in house option then I guess I can pass. Please someone give me your opinions on our own players and if Elflein is the best way to go at C

Not to mention the positional criteria I have for each position. I thought that would be a given, but I don't want to get chastised for not mentioning it in my post above

56 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Again, 38 is way too much and just isn't realistic, but hey, you all do you.

Finding a starter late in the draft does not equal first round talent. I think there must be some huge misconception about what a first round talent means.

Matt Miller is the lead draft analyst and actually communicates with scouts, unlike any of the other writers. He's the most invested and the most actively involved. The others are giving an opinion.

I heavily maintain that there aren't going to be 32 first round talents in any given year, but then again, I don't have an arbitrary grading system, either. I just like a prospect or I don't and I'm not going to sit here and make up my own system and give out my own flawed grades.

51 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

http://www.powerhousegm.com/blog/nfl-draft-prospect-grading-systems

Here's just an example article with two grading tables with round designations beside it. A grade of 7.5 is required in this table to be a first round talent. There's zero chance you would find 38 players in this draft with the ability to become a day one feature player on his team and create physical mismatches for the opposing team. It just isn't going to happen.

Ok, I see your point. I'm on board with your perspective. However that doesn't change anything for me. My idea of a guy worth a first round pick is someone who has shown steady development over their college career, someone with traits, skills, or physical abilities that project well to the next level, someone with scheme versatility, someone with good intangibles, someone who can start day 1 and be an upgrade over the current player on the roster, and someone who needs very little time to develop. There are a lot of guys in this draft who check out just about every single box for me. So I've handed out a lot of first round grades. Am I an easy grader? Possibly. In the end it doesn't matter because I'm not submitting names for the Ravens to draft on draft night. This is why we have the tier system though

39 minutes ago, ravensnation5220 said:

What's the point of even drafting a receiver early. I honestly don't like it unless you are sure they are going to be all pros. I don't see that zero bust factor with any of the top 3. Plus you can find receivers anywhere nowadays. Only pass catcher I'd spend the 16th pick on is oj Howard. 

Agreed, plus I think guys like Cooper Kupp, Ardarius Stewart, Juju, and Chris Godwin are all exactly what we need. They're not super freaky athletes but they're all really skilled at their craft, which makes them better than a great athlete with no skill. Joe needs someone with good hands who is a master of the short and intermediate routes

11 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Having 36 first round grades is entirely too high. Having 36 players that can go in the first is different, but 36 first round grades is way too high. I think Matt Miller said he spoke to several scouts that had maybe 15 players with first round grades in this draft. Just wanted to throw that out.

Anyway, Njoku is absolutely a first round player. I don't think anyone has risen faster, but he's going to be a nightmare up the seam and as a receiver. He's a freakish leaper and is extremely fast. He'll be a real terror in the red zone and over the top of linebackers and safeties. He's really just learning how to really play his game, too. Wait until he gets NFL coaching and has a chance to really learn the nuances. 

If Njoku catches onto coaching, he's going to be a game breaker. I wouldn't take him in the first for the Ravens, but he's going to be a very good pass catcher for a team looking for that game breaking element. 

Normally yes, 36 first round grades is too much. Normally there's about 10-20 guys who deserve to go in the first. Normally if you've made the playoffs you're basically taking a second round type of prospect. However, this is not a normal draft. This is a really rare draft class. You don't get classes like this very often. You say Matt Miller said that some scouts said that there's about 15 guys that have first round grades? I find that hard to believe because there have been plenty of other bleacher report guys that have said that you can get first round caliber guys in the third, not to mention there are lots of other reports saying the scouts said that this is a class where you can starters as late as round 5. I'm ok with Njoku, I believe he's the 2nd or 3rd best TE in this class. He'll be great for someone, but make no mistake this is a DEEP and talented class. I've got about 38 first round grades/prospects 

4 hours ago, trevorsteadman said:

Bold Prediction: Desmond King is taken in the first round. He has been shut down in college and the myth that he is too slow for the NFL I don't think holds water. I really think he still looks like a top 5 cornerback on tape.

Do you think he helped himself that much? I love him as a prospect. I think he can play boundary, nickel or FS. I think even with the good 40 time he's a 2nd rounder, just because of the stacked class

1 hour ago, PurpleHorseman said:

It would be very ideal to land a top shelf edge rusher, offensive lineman, top end no.2 borderline no.1 receiver or better and a defensive back. Ravens would be back in Super Bowl picture.

Regardless who those players are. I would like Stewart/Westbrook round 2-3. Westbrook could be steal of the draft! I would like Ross in round1 as well. He is a football player that happens to have blazing speed. He can get open intermediate.

Stewart is an underrated playmaker. He's got good footwork with and without the ball, he's got some good meat on him which means he does great with YAC because it's hard to just bring him down with one guy, he's got a little make you miss to him as well. He does great at all 3 levels as far as tracking and catching, and he'll make the contested catch as well. He ran a 4.49 which is good enough for me, but not elite, and to top it all off he plays with an attitude and a mean streak. I love him as a prospect. He deserves to be a 2nd or a 3rd round pick. I always throw him to us in the 4th though. 

Moreau tore his pectoral at pro day. He'll probably drop for that. That's why pexpletive are mocking him lower now

2 hours ago, rossihunter2 said:

as far as possible i try and not target positions of need just because they are - i have no idea how center would work out in this situation but i felt that given the players that were picked and the way the rounds were going that there wasn't a center who was value at any of the picks really - maybe jon toth in stead of garcia or pumphrey... also its probably important to say that this isnt what i want to happen but its what i think could happen given my board

Oh I understand. I was acknowledging the idea that we could watch some really good prospects that fill needs get swiped right in front of us

It's realistic. I'm just not a fan of how it turned out. I like Lawson alot, but honestly I think the steelers will take him in the first. He fits there system and what they look for in OLB'S. I like the CB's in the 3rd. If we can't get a CB in 1 or 2 then get those guys in 3. Loved that round. Deatrich wise to me is unathletic and is a 4-3 end more than anything. I think Garcia is an ok pick, I agree with some of your analysis I think he'll be a good pass protector at RT, but not a great run blocker. And just looking at how your mock played out I would've tried to Rade down in the 2nd and taken Taylor Moton. Also how do you see C being played out? I noticed you kind of left that spot alone. 

2 hours ago, rossihunter2 said:

i think he was talking about the zach orr spot as well

i think it's more likely to be nembot over wesley but they'll go into camp as equals i think

No I apologize I meant Membot and Wesley. I accidently put onuwasor down because in my brain I ran through a list of in house guys that were relatively unknown last year. That's my bad. 

I should my analysis on Watt in the edge rusher thread, but the thing I like about him is you can create mismatches all along the line. He can blitz from the inside and outside which means he can be lined up against the best OL or the weakest which is a mismatch in favor of our defense which is highly underrated these days when evaluating prospects, he can get skinny when he needs to, he does a great job locking hands on OL and then shedding them out of the way, he has my favorite trait that I look for in a defender which is endurance. He plays the same way in the 4th as he does in the 1st, I love it. I would prefer him in the 20's instead of at 16, but it's a mock so I get it no trades

13 hours ago, rossihunter2 said:

I thought moton would be one until about 2/3 weeks ago, I think Garcia is a good option, as is bisnowaty, roderick Johnson is a guy I've seen mocked mid (I personally don't like him but he's probably worth a watch), David sharpe I like

but you're right there aren't many and that took me a few minutes to find those guys on my board

Yes it's a problem. And so we might not fill the RT spot with this draft as much as everyone wants. It might be we go the year with our two in house guys membot and onuwasor

3 hours ago, allblackraven said:

Problem is that most of the guys you mentioned are halfway decent with some upside. Not a great OL class.

Lol, I know. It's killing me. I'm trying to find good mid round guys and it's like there's a lot of guys slightly overrated who will go in round 1, or there's a bunch of projects who will go in round 5,6,7

6 hours ago, Jacquouille said:

 

Basham is from Ohio, he's projected to go in the 3rd but I wouldn't call him developmental, he's got a good bunch of IQ and is very aware. He wins by using his hands well and his speed to power conversion is elite. Great burst too. 

Not to mention he's got some seriously long arms. I think NFL Draft profile says he's got 34" arms and 10" hands

Can somebody give me some tackles to scout NOT named one of the following:

Cam Robinson

Ryan Ramcyzk

Taylor Moton

Forest Lamp

Garret Bolles

Dion Dawkins

Julien Davenport

Sometimes I need some other tackle to put in my mocks that's a mid round tackle that will be around in the 4th that's halfway decent with some upside.

9 hours ago, rossihunter2 said:

i just did a mock - i might do a post tomorrow - where davis slid to us without ross going in the top 16

on a side note about mocks: i always find it hard mocking to other teams sometimes because there are so many seemingly left field media picks that i would love to happen because they drop guys i have valued higher on my big board but i cant justify in my head because i dont see why it happens lol - like ive seen taco charlton mocked ahead of our pick a lot but i dont see it so i didnt mock him there but in my head i wonder whether he will go and push back yet more great prospects to us... i always find myself maybe forcing 1 pick but all it would take is a team falling in love with ross or charlton or peppers or lamp or humphrey or bolles or any of the qbs and we end up with even more choices than we all initially envisioned - we are so stuck as a board in our valuations of players for the ravens that its hard to justify different valuations for other teams - i guess thats why eric decosta runs the draft (and evidently predicts it right) and not us

Every time I do a mock, this is exactly how I feel, and especially this year with about 2 rounds worth of first rounders. It's so hard this year with such a loaded draft class

1 minute ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

He also said this morning on the radio that Barnett wouldnt be great value for the Eagles at 14 (i live in philly market) and will probably go in the 20's somewhere, that Cook is prob a 2nd round talent.... that White will 100% be the 2nd CB off the board, Conley is the 3rd and that Reddick is a near sure fire Top 10 pick (starting to feel this isnt as ridiculous as some of the others).

I just feel like the media guys are more all over the place on prospects than in other years. Theres always differing of a opinion... but its usually not as drastic as this. 

Barnett in the 20's? How do u look at him and see late 1st?

It's simple. People putting too much stock into the combine. Let's be real, if all you do is watch his combine highlights then you're not impressed. But if you actually do your job, which alot of these analysts don't I feel like, and watch the tape then you see a top 10 guy. Really that's the only way you see someone who goes in the late 20's

I did say more than half of his injuries seem to happen away from a tackle. I could revise that and say exactly half though. He got his lisfranc injury on the opening series against the Bengals back in 14' and I can't remember exactly, but I'm sure that nothing actually happened to his foot on the play and I don't even think he was involved on the tackle. I think back in 15' (the really down year) he had a thigh injury in the Chiefs game. It was nothing serious but it made news and I'm pretty sure that was also away from the play. 

33 minutes ago, Jonah DeVito said:

If he's got mad coverage skills I don't care a bit about him not being able to tackle. Jimmy is a good tackler and he gets hurt doing so, so I can't blame him that much for not wanting to tackle the big guys. Not excusing it, just saying. 

I'm pretty sure more than half of Jimmy's injuries have come really from nothing, and not so much tackling. But you're right tackling can get you hurt, and it's what separates football from almost every other sport, so usually players understand that it comes with the game and they had better just get used to it. So I'm going to continue to use tackling as part of my evaluation. Missed tackles are what cost us the game against New England in the playoffs 2 years, missed tackles are what lead to big gains on the ground that should've been no gains, missed tackles from the secondary have cost the Ravens plenty of games over the years.

17 minutes ago, Edgar said:

Witherspoon mostly does try to minimize contact. He goes ankles low, for example....he doesn't see his target generally and he is often seen sort of lurking just in case instead of sticking his head in there.

These things can be coached out of him and I just can't get over the guy in coverage. Very sticky...super instinctive corner.

I'm not so sure. I'very seen plenty of occasions where Witherspoon sees the ball carrier coming and he will just ole' the guy. He'll step to the side to completely avoid contact and then he'll try to make a last second attempt to swipe at the ball carriers ankles. The problem here is that he's more than willing to get out of the way of the runner. I think that's what makes him not the best corner option and I don't know if you can really change that. But yes mad coverage skills

2 hours ago, Italian Raven said:

And I don't get why honestly. Wilson is one of the most complete CBs in the class. Great patience and recovery make up for the lack of top end speed. He's a top 3 CB imo and would definitely take him with a top 20 pick. I don't see any reason for him falling off the first round. 

Hey, if he does fall out of the first round I'm all for picking him up. More for the Ravens right

11 minutes ago, Jacquouille said:

Oh, I was talking about the "best OT in the class" label, which is like being the tallest midget in this draft class, not arguing with Walt's int which sounds pretty fair.

Robinson is growing on me but I'm still debating wether it wouldn't be better to just take a RT in the 3rd or 4th and develop him like every OLinemen we have had.

This is what I'd like to do. Because there aren't any really dominant tackles this year. They all have lots of flaws. I feel like the difference between robinson in the first and say Moton in the 2nd or 3rd isn't that big of a difference

5 minutes ago, Ravenskid52752 said:

Just seen this too wouldn't be surprised if they did take him. Can and Ronnie for the next 4 years together could be huge 

I agree. But there are some on these boards who think Cam would be an ok tackle, but a terrific guard and so some people on these boards say draft him but draft him as a guard not a tackle. They have a valid point, sometimes on the edge Cam doesn't have the necessary kick step to deal with defenders, and therefore he has a habit of abandoning any technique and just running around using his limbs to push guys away from the pocket. He does this against Barnett in the Tennessee game. And there are occasions where Cam stops driving his feet in the run game.

I will point out however that while Bama can recruit with unholy success they struggle to develop their OT's and so I believe that Cam could come in and polish up and be an outstanding tackle especially on the right side where expectations are lower. Also Cam moves well in space and so I think zone stretch plays, tosses, screens and really just about any outside run play would be a go to run play with him at RT. Furthermore he's played through injuries in previous years, and has shown good durability, not to mention when given the opportunity to finish a run play he will gladly do so.

I have high hopes for Cam. However this is no ordinary draft class and I can't justify taking him at 16 simply because he's not a sure thing, with just one too many question marks that need to be looked at. 

2 minutes ago, RavensDieHard21 said:

Lmao cannot believe I forgot him hahaha okay lets revamp this 

I think this just shows that we'll get someone we really want. This is such a rare draft that's so loaded. We're bound to get someone we really want, at any of DB, OLB, OL, and WR. But I will be honest you had my favorites gone by our pick