raven94

Agreed. He posted awesome combine numbers, but his film isn't that impressive

Oh good point!

This is a tough subject. Honestly JoeyFlex I think you should think about it this way, A) he might be gone by our pick, so no need to worry about being torn about it. Ever since the senior bowl and the combine his stock has risen faster than steam in a sauna. He has been constantly mocked inside the top 12. I personally think he's elevated himself into that top tier of prospects along with Hooker, Adams, Fournette, Garret, Lattimore etc... And I love O.J. Howard. He can block which seems to be a concern Ravens FO has for tight ends (minus the pitta Dickson experiment), he can run (that much is certain about him), he has an A++++ character (never got the ball, never complained), and if he does get the ball he can make explosive plays with it that are worth at least 40 yards. This would cause defenses to account for him and could open up other players. He loves the seam route and so does Flacco. All of this makes me want O.J. especially since, as already stated, he's the best tight end prospect to come out in such a long time. On top of all of this the NFL is a match up league and O.J. Howard can be an asset as a blocker, he can indeed do the juszyk role in the backfield and get the ball much easier, he should outrun just about all linebackers so if he's covered by a linebacker because safeties fear our speed at WR then he wins that match up. Your fear is if he's covered by a safety and it's a tight window can he go up and get it? Personally, unless it's Kam Chancellor covering him, I think the only way he can't at least draw a PI call is if he trips over himself. The case against O.J.? Unproven, I agree, we have plenty of "talent" at the position, I somewhat agree. These are the only points against O.J. let's look at them 1) the talent we have at TE is, besides pitta and to an extent Gilmore, also unproven. Waller is still working on it (I think he could be good), Boyle is one more failed drug test away from being kicked off the team or being suspended for another year, Maxx was popular but hasn't seen the field. I think there's lots of potential here, but since both O.J. and our group are really unproven you have to look at ceilings and O.J. has a higher one. 2) O.J. being unproven is impossible to refute and that certainly adds to the mystery of the boom or bust idea of him. But I will say this, with McCarron and Coker they actually occasionaly found O.J. when he was covered and he can make solid catches while carrying a defender, although with a limited sample size. Long post I know, in the end I think if he's the BPA when we pick plus the depth of pass rushers and corners in this draft you take him

I've always loved the idea of having a dominant unit on a team. Not necessarily a dominant offense or defense, but a dominant unit on the offense or defense. Take for example the Cowboys OL, the Seahawks DB'S, the 49ers LB'S when Jim Harbaugh was the coach, the steelers WR'S etc.... I feel like with the examples I've given you you can see that really any dominant unit can give you a successful team. I want to know if A) you think we should pursue this model of team building and B). what unit would you like to see be dominant to help us win the division, the conference, and the SB

I really like what's being said here. I think to win the division you've got to be able to run the ball at will for 4 or 5 yards a carry. I love our defense, and it will be a glorious defense barring injuries next season, but it's still almost impossible to defend against a healthy steelers or a healthy Bengals offense for the 30 minutes that they'll have the ball. You've got to be able to keep them on the sidelines. I think to win the conference you're going to need a front seven that can stop the run and get after the passer. Oakland is a punishing offense with the OL they have plus the weapons they have at the skilled positions, New England is New England and you've got to be able to play in Foxborough, and defense travels. So I feel like the secondary is already there, the front seven is really just 2 pass rushers and a DE away from being completely ferocious, and the O line and WR'S are the farthest behind. I would like to complete the front 7 in the draft and bolster the OL with Mangold and some rookies in the draft. I agree Flacco can do things when he has play action, and a run game regardless of who is at WR/TE.

You and I have already had a conversation about this. It's hard to argue with both of your guys' points. Sometimes staying pat is the way to go, sometimes trading back is the best decision. The only thing that we can say for certain relating to this subject is that we have to wait and see what the 15 teams in front of us do.

Has anyone thought of taking pocic and putting him at RT? Everyone says he's too long for C (I agree) but he could switch over to tackle where he did play for a season I believe

Stewart has been solidly mocked in the 4th by about 5 different multi round mocks I've seen. That's where I'm taking him in my mock

To be honest I feel like Cam's run blocking is great. He does pretty well in space for a big guy, he pulls well (yes a guard trait), yes when he latches on he's the best and I feel like that carries into the run game. From what I've seen when Cam doesn't do well in run blocking it's because he's confused on who or what his assignment is. I could be wrong but it seems to me like he's confused when he does bad. Anyway I think he can be just as good as Rick Wagner at the very least. I also like Cam because the rest of the tackles are so so. I would be happy with Taylor Moton in the 3rd just as well though.

That's where we differ I guess. I think he can be good in pass protection, I think he can be an upgrade over Wagner in both pass and run at tacckle. But I do concur, he would be a monster at G. KO clone man. Even look at his measurable, eerily similar to KO

I'm completely in agreement with you here on the analysis of Tim Williams. I've actually said alot of what you said on these boards in the past. I've just been saying that based on some of the media reports and mocks etc. That I've seen I can see him going in the second round. I've always been a fan and supporter of his on these boards, I want him in purple and black. I'm just stating that some info leads me to believe he can go in the second

Oh I've listened to it. I know he's not a bad guy. I think lots of people know he's a good guy. I think a lot of people are overreacting to his poor combine performance and also to his admittance to failing drug tests (although I thought his honesty there was the real indicator of character). Lots of the mocks I've seen have him at least slipping to the second if not later. Grant it since when do draft analysts have a single clue about what's going on? My statements are just made off of the mocks. That's all. Like I've said I believe he's 1st round talent, great character, great college program, great teammate.

Has anyone considered taking Cam Robinson and putting him at right tackle? I don't know if that scenario has come up at all yet on this thread (correct me if I'm wrong). I think he has great gaurd ability and can be a KO clone, but I also feel like he can be put at right tackle and do fine. He wouldn't see too many of the great pass rushers over there and he and Yanda would make for a terrific run blocking tandem.

Well his stock has been falling. People have been looking at his negatives a lot lately. His light weightedness, his supposed liability against the run, and his poor combine numbers, and a couple of other points as well. I believe he'll be at our second round pick and I'd pick him and consider it a steal because I believe he's got 1st round. He's just got a public rap at the moment it seems

Oh no worries. No confusion. Like I said, I have my issues and I recognize them. I also recognize when they become an issue (like this year). I was just getting them out there so people understand my reasoning. In the end it all does come down to this: the draft is a total crap shoot. You never know when people will reach or make a smart choice, you never know if someone will bust or bloom

Your points are valid, certainly. You actually hit my ideal scenario on the head. Trade back with Houston. That's 9 draft spots, which is huge and garner's a lot of collateral. I've been using the draft slot points system, or whatever its called, and trading back with the lions or texans would do the trick and that would net a late 1st and either a 2nd, or a 3rd and a 4th packaged together. I honestly like the idea of getting a 3 and a 4. Trading that far back would do it. But at the same time there's a couple of realities here that I'm still trying to grasp. A) You only need one player at a position to come in and be exceptional and that can change your whole team (I always try to fill in the holes). B). Sometimes a player is worth not trading back for, I like having more picks so you have greater odds to hit on a prospect and get a good player, but let's face it if peyton manning is there you take peyton manning and move on. Bare with me here, these two concepts I struggle with sometimes

I honestly think we should trade down regardless of who is there (go ahead and chastise me for that). My reasoning is that this is a loaded class from round 1 to round 5. Unfortunately this is a year where the Ravens only have 7 total picks (1st, 2nd, 3rd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, and a 6th), and it also seems to me that suddenly the Ravens have a surplus of holes; C, RT, OLB/pass rusher, CB, DL depth, OL depth, WR. Hell, before free agency there were times where it seemed like we needed a whole new team (according to a few people). Anyway I feel like we will get a stud in the first round at really any pick 1-32, so I've been on board with trading down and getting more picks to really get a large class of stars. We can easily get a pro bowl corner, pass rusher, and pass catcher or OL in this class alone along with some solid starters who can really round out the team. I think we should trade down into the 20's and get an extra 2nd, or an extra 3 and 4. I'm thinking of creating some threads that address whether we should go more offense in the draft or go more defense, as well as some prospect analysis, and 3rd and 4th round prospects

As far as Jones goes anything can happen, I can see him falling. No one thought Myles Jack would go where he did. And I agree with you on williams. He is truly a good guy and is very genuine. I watched all of his interviews, dealing with Saban, being at Bama, having the teamates he had I think have all made him a good guy. I love Williams for us. With that being said it only takes one failed drug test and you can be out for 10 games. Gregory has unfortunately set the standard and the expectations of GM'S and front offices. T Williams honestly deserves to go in round 1, but in such a loaded edge class on top of the Gregory issue he's going to fall to round 2. Maybe not to 48 which changes things, but I think he will go in round 2. Yes it would be a couple, I'm an optimist and so I'll throw options like this around in my head sometimes

In my mind this makes trading back the way to go. At 16 we would still have a litter of great prospects to choose from (just none of them CB) I envision us trading back a few spots for a 3 and 4 or maybe for just a 2nd, and then taking whoever best fills our needs. I might be alone in this but I still feel like WR is in play for us at the trade back spot, say if Corey Davis falls to the 20's. If a trade happened I would go Davis, Reddick, Lamp, or Conley (who I'm completely sold on but like). Honestly I feel like Tim Williams will slide because he's basically going down the same path as Randy Gregory with his substance abuse problems. He'll be there at our second just because there's a great risk he's never available to play because of suspension. And I think it's very possible that S.Jones falls to our 2nd because Achilles takes 5 months alone to just become functional again and then about another 7 to 8 months to get it back in athletic shape. If I can get Reddick, T. Williams, and S. Jones in the same draft and then get a good Mo Claiborne in FA to cover for a while I'd be satisfied

Not to mention this is a weak WR class and good WR's show up about every other year while good pass rushers and corners hardly ever show up in the draft. I'm with you, let's go defense, defense, and defense. I like some of the big bodied possession receivers we can get in the 3rd and 4th. I want early picks to get quality defenders that can start, make pro bowls and differences in games. I want us to find our next Terrell Suggs, I want to find our next Chris Mccalister, I want to find some guys that'll give some star power and youth to our defense. Joe Flacco is better than any other QB we've ever had. I wish he was better, but he's good enough to win a few games on his own. We need a defense that makes it easy and doesn't give up the leads that he gets for us late in games. Honestly our formula to sweeping the AFC north and becoming a power house again is to get a top defense and slightly better than mediocre offense. Possession WR and dflefense is what I think we should do

He can cover very well. His length is certainly a plus, he has good feet and mirroring skills not to mention he has good deep speed/recovery speed. He played on an island at times so he's used to being on his own. He played against some decent WR's in the Pac 12. My one negative is he seems to be allergic to being physical. Of all the CB's in this class who don't like to tackle or be physical he has to be the worst. If a WR gets his hands on Witherspoon to block, Witherspoon will simply quit on the play. He makes no effort to get off of a block. What's more is if you run at him he will simply Oley you and step aside. People on these threads talk about not caring about tackling and justifiably so, but with this guy he's not just not tackling, he's eliminating himself as a defender for a lot of the plays. Playing against the Steelers and Bengals twice a year would be very bad for him. So for simply not being physical in any way I've greatly lowered his value. Love him as a cover guy, but he literally can't do much else on the field. Earliest I'd take him is round 4

Yeah Garrett vs Cam is basically a prime showing that even if you have ungodly athletic ability and are extremely blessed with freaky length and strength (Myles Garrett) you still have to have skill and polish as a pass rushers. Garret just went at Cam like a madman without a plan and so all Cam had to do was just get a good kick step that went far enough back to cutoff Garrett and then just deliver an ok punch and latch on to him inside. That's why Cam won a lot of the match ups again also Garret for 3 years. Because you can't beat Cam unless you've got good skills as a pass rusher

I agree that he's high IQ, but I've failed to see the power consistently from him. I've seen times where he fails to generate a push in the run game and on some occasions I've seen him driven backwards. I do appreciate that he can play through pain and is versatile and I do like him as a prospect, but not enough to warrant a first round pick. You'll have to reference me to some of his better film. I usually come across ok film for him (only 4 games).

One thing that has been concerning about Feeney is apparently he has a history with concussions. So it worries me that he might be a Chris Borland or some other early retiree due to head issues. No source but I remember hearing about it during senior bowl week from announcers. Also I feel like you're over rating Feeney a little bit. I'm not saying hes not good, but I also don't think he's the best gaurd since (insert whoever you want). I think Feeney is destined to be alright though. With that being said my view of him means he's a 2nd round target and not even a 1st round Trade Back option. So I'm basically viewing the sexy positions as our only 1st round route. I really like Taylor Moton though in round 3. He can be a good right tackle and believe or not he can be an excellent gaurd

This is kind of my mentality too. I've got more of a defensive theme to my mock drafts. I'm a fan of Sidney Jones in the first or Gareon Conley in the 1st/2nd and then I'll be honest Howard Wilson from Houston is going to be a really good corner back. He's caught my eye and I would obviously like to get him for as cheap as possible, maybe 3rd round but hopefully 4th, and then also get some pass rushers and a few OL and that really sums up my draft