JonnyBaltimore

1 hour ago, PurpleCity5 said:

Like Biscotti said, if you swapped Wagner and Williams with Elam and Brown then people would be praising Ozzie for finding great players in a historically awful draft. It was one of the worst in recent memory. We got a good RT and one of the best run stoppers in the league alongside Juice who is the best FB. I think he did a solid job. Did we miss out on some talent? Sure, but it was a pretty underwhelming draft and we weren't the only slip up. 

For whatever it is worth, we also selected John Simon in that draft class and only 8 players drafted that year have had more sacks than Simon since. haha

1 hour ago, PurpleCity5 said:

Like Biscotti said, if you swapped Wagner and Williams with Elam and Brown then people would be praising Ozzie for finding great players in a historically awful draft. It was one of the worst in recent memory. We got a good RT and one of the best run stoppers in the league alongside Juice who is the best FB. I think he did a solid job. Did we miss out on some talent? Sure, but it was a pretty underwhelming draft and we weren't the only slip up. 

Wagner was the last pick in Round 5 of the 2013 Draft.

So basically a 6th rounder.

3 hours ago, OUravensfan said:

It's always a peculiar and funny rebuttal to the Flacco doesn't have weapons when people say:

a.) But He had Torrey Smith

b.) But He had Boldin and Smith

1) And what is Smith doing now

2) And he won 6 playoff games (7 if you count KC with only Boldin) and a super bowl and nearly got to back to back ones with them....

If you look at Boldin's stats prior to and after his departure from the Ravens, you would see that his numbers actually regressed during his time in Baltimore:

http://www.nfl.com/player/anquanboldin/2505587/careerstats

Prior to arrival in Baltimore, Boldin had 2 years over 1000 yards in Arizona

In Baltimore, Boldin had 3 years sub 1000 yards

After departure from Baltimore, Boldin had 2 years over 1000 yards in San Francisco

20 minutes ago, VermontRaven said:

Very well said!  Not to mention Kaufusi didn't even have a chance to play this year.  Who knows?  Maybe he turns out to be a really good player too. 

Ozzie is getting WAAAY too much criticism for what are basically 2 big busts--Elam and Arthur Brown.  Despite having a couple early round misses, Ozzie is awesome at finding quality players THROUGHOUT the draft.  I think that's where Ozzie excels.  He finds some gems in mid-late rounds and undrafted free agents (Lewis, Young, Dixon, Judon, and Pierce are all prime examples just from this year)

 

 

Agree with this. Just go look at New England's draft history in recent years. 

Finding the late round gems is much more important than missing on a few early round picks. The reason is VALUE. First, the early round picks don't get paid as much any more and second, the later round picks get paid low. So if you succeed with some late round contributors, you get great performance for low pay but when you miss in the early rounds, you get low performance for reasonable pay. The risk/reward formula is in our favour.

I'd be more concerned if we missed in a Top 10 scenario, but we don't suck that bad regularly so that isn't a problem.

They are looking for Joe Flacco.

It looks like he went missing in the regular season.

55 minutes ago, frozen joe flacco fan said:

You deserve a Pulitzer Prize for writing, but your Nobel Prize for Science will have to wait. The answer to your question can be quite simply summed up as follows: Joe raises the level of his play in the playoffs as one would expect a Franchise QB to do. In other words, he ratchets up his intensity and his focus as most great players do. Unfortunately, all players do not. Billy Cundiff and Lee Evans are classic examples of the latter type. I'm sure there are other examples we could cite from the 2014 team when we should have beaten the Patsies in the playoffs. You're probably too young to remember the year we were 13-3 in the regular season and lost in the first round of the playoffs when Steve McNair laid a goose egg on the field in front of our home fans. Or, maybe you remember the time we made the playoffs and lost to the Tennessee Titans 'cause we couldn't score a TD. I was there! The point is Joe coulda, shoulda and woulda played in three SBs, not two like everyone is quoting, were it not for some lackadaisical play and pathetic coaching from some of his co-workers & employer.

Joe's playoff performance and SB performance has been a lot better than several of the prima donas you guys seem to drool over. Let's see, what's Matt Ryan's record in the playoffs and the SB? Let's see, how many straight playoff games has Detroit now lost? Who's at the helm of that battleship? Oh that's right! Its another Matty, huh? Joe Flacco deserves better than to play on a team where half of our "loyal" fans hate him. When this team and its fanbase quit making excuses for the FO and the HC and realize what the real problems that we face are, then you'll see Joe soar like an Eagle (I mean Raven of course) and play like the elite QB he is during the regular season. Isn't it rich that a lot of the same people, who consistently defend Harbaugh b/c of his overall record as a head coach, want to attack Joe even though his overall record as a Pro would be considered as exceptional by many in his vocation. Isn't it rich that there is not a single former Raven player on our sideline on the coaching staff despite the fact that some of our former players are future HOF members? Maybe John Hardbaugh is insecure!?!?? AND, BTW, if U want to go to the Pro Bowl, there are seats available for that debacle @ $47 a pop. Knock yersef out!    

If we expect January Joe to be Pro Bowl Joe in the regular season, we are being a bit optimistic. He is 0 - 9 in that regard. And if we are going to rely primarily on his arm and his decision-making to get us in the playoffs, we are asking way too much based on past experience. He is not that type of QB. The solution is to surround him with better players, where those ''better players'' are primarily carrying the load.

He is woefully inconsistent in the regular season and expecting him to change suddenly in his 10th year is wanting at the very least. As stated before, Joe is part of the solution but him ''upping'' his game in the regular season is not one of them. We need to get some playmaker's on offence and rely less on our franchise QB who only acts like that maybe 4-5 games a year when those big games get his juices going.

The problem is there is something called a "regular season" where he needs to show up for.

7 minutes ago, JonnyBaltimore said:

"Carry the team" does not mean do it by themselves. Don't think anyone can literally do it by themselves in football.

"Carry the team" in the context is to lead the team and be the most significant reason why the team makes the playoffs. I would think this is obvious but apparently it isn't. 

When you have a top 10 defence and are surrounded with a solid supporting cast and are deemed and paid as the FRANCHISE QB, and have one of the best special teams in the league, you should make the playoffs if you can "carry the team" as defined above.

And because he has not demonstrated this, we need to find other players that can "carry the team". I hope that clarifies. 

The fact that this is the hottest topic AND the fact the Head Coach also called out Flacco, should say it all.

If you guys read my position, I believe Flacco is a part of the solution. But we have to get off this notion that he will be the type of QB that is the MVP of the offence just because he is paid like it. Stop expecting him to play like his salary and start building an offence to compensate for his inconsistencies/weaknesses.

"Carry the team" does not mean do it by themselves. Don't think anyone can literally do it by themselves in football.

"Carry the team" in the context is to lead the team and be the most significant reason why the team makes the playoffs. I would think this is obvious but apparently it isn't. 

When you have a top 10 defence and are surrounded with a solid supporting cast and are deemed and paid as the FRANCHISE QB, and have one of the best special teams in the league, you should make the playoffs if you can "carry the team" as defined above.

11 minutes ago, The Raven said:

Name one quarterback that could carry their team to the playoffs without a solid supporting cast.

Experience says Not Joe Flacco.

Just now, gtalk12 said:

And also forgot to mention, with the exception of the Seahawks, you can't name a SB champ in recent memory to win a chip with LESS talent then we had on offense.

My point is the REGULAR season. It would be nice to read the actual post.

2 minutes ago, gtalk12 said:

 

So this whole he needs more than every other QB argument is ridiculous, he needs SOMETHING....that being said, he needs to play better but do not make him seem like he needs a golden path laid out for him.

We are expecting him to play up to his salary and to the salary as other QBs in that class.

It's pretty clear you did not read that.

FLACCO is NOT a QB that can carry a team to the playoffs. So knowing that, then surround him with player's that can carry the load.

9 minutes ago, Ravensfan23 said:

You do realize that this is exactly what the Packers did for Aaron Rodger right? Green Bay has surrounded Rodgers with a host of 1st and 2nd round talent offensively and done their best to not only build a good offense but keep it intact for years. Nelson, Cobb, Adams, Lacy, Bulaga and Spriggs are all 1st and 2nd round picks. That's a total of 6 out of 10 offensive players around Rodger drafted no later than the 2nd round. That doesn't mention Richard Rodgers and Ty Montgomery are 3rd round picks. That's a total of 8 guys who the Packers have drafted in the top 3 rounds to surround Rodgers with, which doesn't include Cook who was signed as a FA. More importantlymost of these players have grown with Rodgers in the same system. 

I'm not saying that Flacco is on the same level as Rodger, but when people suggest that Flacco needs good players surrounding him and other QBs don't, I have to question if the person that said it actually pays attention to other teams. 

Ten years = 0 Pro Bowls. And now in his 11th year, we are expecting him to play to the level of a Pro Bowler that can carry the team.

My point is Flacco needs MORE good players than other QBs that we are expecting him to play to. The reality is at some point, Flacco supporters need to call a spade a spade and stop expecting him to be THAT type of QB.

We need to surround the team to compensate for his weaknesses. And to mention him in the same breath as Rodgers especially in the regular season is a joke.

Here's my question then, why does he play so well in the big games as opposed to the less meaningful regular season games? Is it because he has better players surrounding him in the playoffs? 

The player's surrounding him are the exact SAME.

The reality is if Joe played like a Pro Bowler in the regular season and plays like Joe does in the playoffs, he would be one of the best players in the league. I think that is asking a bit much.  His durability, however, is under appreciated as we have been quite fortunate to have him play 10 years and he has missed only a handful of games. 

I think the mistake is that we are wanting and expecting him to be THAT type of quarterback, when he just doesn't have the IQ and accuracy to be THAT QB. Based on his skill set, it is better to surround him with a dominating OL and superstar RB, and less importantly though still necessary with guys who can stretch the field. We just need player's who can stretch the field to keep defence off balance. We then have to add guys who can break the game open from the backfield and the slot with YAC (i.e. a RB who can break it open (i.e. Dalvin Cook).

Although I am optimistic with Perriman, we have had a horrendous history of drafting WR's. Our WR scouting department needs to really be reviewed. The Steelers on the other hand have had great success picking guys who can stretch the field without paying them much. They know how to scout their WR's.

In an ideal situation for the offence, we cut Pitta post June to create cap space to re-sign Wagner. Dalvin Cook drops to 16 in the 2017 NFL draft or we trade up to get him. Adoree Jackson drops to round 2 and we pick him and put him the slot. B. Watson gets healthy and comes back as our receiving TE to replace Pitta and be a downfield threat.

We tender RFA T. West with original tender and someone picks him up giving us an additional 3rd rounder.

We then use our three 3rd round picks and 4th round picks to address Center, Cornerback, Guard. 

So then we surround Joe with Wallace and Perriman on the outside, with Dalvin Cook/Dixon in the backfield, and Adoree Jackson in the slot. (We drafted Wagner with a 5 round pick, so if we can get an upgrade a Center w/ Zuttah as a restructured backup). Then we have B.Watson who can stretch the field and lead our young TEs (and cheap) into the future.

Then we accept our defence will be a Top 10 -15 with minor upgrades and hope any combination of Correa, Kaufusi, Davis, Henry can contribute next year. But we then get a better offence and running game that will dominate Time of Possession and help our defence out.

Rather than expect Flacco to play up to his salary and pull an Aaron Rodgers, I think this would best provide Flacco with an environment for success. One that would counter his inherent deficiencies and allow us to get to the playoffs where he plays his best.

1 hour ago, purpledown said:

Dalvin Cook is a game breaker who could be there at 16. The Ravens should draft him,he is a proven back with speed and power.

He is a game changer. His feet are amazing.

I'd go:

Round 1: CB Sydney Jones (starting CB w/ Jimmy Smith and Tavon Young)

Round 2: CB Adoree Jackson (use as a scatback, slot receiver, punt returner-  develop as a CB that can fill in as a slot CB for depth)

Round 3: Oline Center

Round 3: Oline Guard

Re-sign Wagner at RT, restructure Dumervil, hope one of Correa and Kaufusi develop as a pass rusher. Address Pass Rusher in 2018 or sign a situational pass rusher.

I'm really tired of hearing and seeing DB as being an area of concern every year. With this year's crop of CB's, we should target this position specifically. There are so many of them. What proves to be true is that you have to draft a CB or overpay them in Free Agency. Few if any of our CB's signed as free agents have turned into much. Better to draft the DBs and go the free agent route for WR's.

On 1/3/2017 at 0:14 PM, GrimCoconut said:

I just read Jones officially declared for the draft. Not that it wasn't a forgone conclusion but still. I do wonder if Jones will go lower than people here expect since he's pretty light at 180 but he's 6-0 so unless he gains weight that's pretty light and it may drop him as a result. 

I like Jones; I think he will be a stud. He is a plug and play corner with no visible weaknesses. He's light but he can tackle. The only X factor is his speed, but judging from the tape he is probably 4.45'ish. Long, patient and is a student of the game. All great attributes. I believe he might not be there at 16.

21 minutes ago, Tyler said:

As we've seen and heard so many times from guys like Harbaugh, Ozzie, and Decosta, year after year they are looking for guys that "Play like a Raven", so I'm asking you guys, when are they finally going to say enough is enough? I don't know about you all, but I'm sick and tired of this front office taking prospects completely off of their board, simply because they partied a little too much in college, or happen to be a little out there in terms of intensity, and settling for much less talented and impactful prospects that "Look like a Raven". A prime example, passing on a guy (MULTIPLE TIMES) who would have led our entire team in sacks as a rookie(Noah Spence), for Kamalei Correa, who couldn't even perform well enough to dress with the team most games. We've seen it happen numerous other times, and in my opinion, that's what's keeping this team hovering around mediocrity. That's not me saying that I want the next Greg Hardy or Aldon Smith, as domestic violence is a HUGE red flag, but lets be honest, Football is not a sport for choir boys, and sometimes you need guys that have that extra edge. Our best defensive player was labeled by many as a "bad character guy" coming out of Colorado, simply because he smoked a little weed in college, and we all know what our defense looked like without him on the field. So my question is, how many busted picks is it going to take for this team to tweak its drafting strategy? I'm not saying let's be the Cincinnati Bengals, but let's take some calculated risks on guys like Tim Williams, and see what they can do. What do we have to lose, Because "Looking like a Raven" has sure looked a lot like 8-8 as of late. 

Way too early to assess the 2016 draft. I'm optimistic that we can get 1 or 2 more starters out of that draft class. Besides we got Judon late and he had 4 sacks in limited playing time.

I'm sorry but expecting Flacco to be a franchise quarterback and playing up to his contract is really setting ourselves up for disappointment. You're not going to get it. It's time to own up to the fact that we overpaid after 1 great post season run.

With this personnel, Harbaugh needs to realize that it can only be RUN first and then PA off that (like Kubiak's system). Flacco being nothing more than a good game manager that can throw the deep ball. He just does not have the IQ to take this team on his shoulders.

I find Flacco's and Harbaughs post game interviews almost nauseating.

But give credit to Harbaugh for riding his butt into the off season, because it's not okay for Flacco to underperform like that.

I'm sorry but expecting Flacco to be a franchise quarterback and playing up to his contract is really setting ourselves up for disappointment. You're not going to get it. It's time to own up to the fact that we overpaid after 1 great post season run.

With this personnel, Harbaugh needs to realize that it can only be RUN first and then PA off that (like Kubiak's system). Flacco being nothing more than a good game manager that can throw the deep ball. He just does not have the IQ to take this team on his shoulders.

I find Flacco's and Harbaughs post game interviews almost nauseating.

13 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Wonder if this is the year we finally trade up? I wanna see us move back into the first or trade up early 2nd to grab Nelson or feeney. I like elflein but he's far from those 2.

I say trade up because we had a good 2016 draft. That said, we got starters not game changers. With a solid 2016 draft, if KC or Kaufusi can turn into a contributing starter for us, and one of Henry and Cannady be a rotational player, we knock that draft out of the stadium. This let's us go for a home run with this 2017 draft as we get a comp 3rd for Osemele and we should trade up and go for it.

2 and 4 would be nice. I say trade up and grab one of them.

56 minutes ago, JO_75 said:

Officially Pick 16.... 

Colts SOS: .492

Vikings SOS: .492

Ravens SOS: .498

Colts & Vikings have same SOS & Conference Record. Which moves it to the final tiebreaker before the coin flip, Division Record. Vikings had a 2-4 Division Record compared to the Colts 3-3 division record. Eagles will get the 14th pick(via MIN), Indy gets the 15th and we are slotted 16th.

Did they use this year's (2016) SOS?  Looks like it if we are picking 16.

I'd be surprised if Elam is back. I think Pitta stays if we can restructure his contract to a more decent number. 

With the #15 pick, we need a playmaker/cover corner in the secondary. We tried to get Ramsey this year and given how ''meh'' our offence was this year, I think that was the difference between making the playoffs and not. I like Stanley though.

14 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Joe had more than a few errant passes.

The bottom line is that when you are the highest paid player on your team, you bear the most responsibility for the team. The fact the we haven't heard the "Elite" debate all year is because frankly there is no debate.

Flacco at his current cap hit is simply poor value. Expecting him to be Matt Ryan or Aaron Rogers is just setting ourselves up for disappointment. What we learned the last few years is that he cannot make that next step. He is, however, a solid, durable QB who can throw the long ball and plays well in games that matter.

I would say that I would rather have him at the QB position than 90% of the QB's in our league, but from a value standpoint, he is just not earning his keep. It almost seems as if we can structure his contract to one that is more performance based, it is likely he would play better. Coaching needs to ride him to get performance if that is what is needed in the regular season. I have seen these personality types before--make him prove himself and he will.

Just now, JonnyBaltimore said:

Tie breaker is based on Strength of Schedule. If Denver wins, we are at least #16.

If Denver loses, we are in tie at 8-8 with DEN, MINN, IND. The tie-breaker would determine who drafts at lower. I'm not sure if they count the 2016 opposition records or the 2015 opposition records.

Tiebreakers

• Strength of schedule for the previous season is the first tie-breaker for teams with the same winning percentage. The team with the lowest strength of schedule percentage wins the tiebreaker and picks ahead of all other teams with the same record.

I think we are drafting #15.