JonnyBaltimore

2 hours ago, Florida Ravens Fan said:

Might be in the minority but i hate the Pats more than the Steelers now.

Yeah me too! Hate the Pats. 

I like how Houston beat the crap out of Brady! I think with Dupree and Shazier, the way they are playing, they are going to lay the lumber on Brady! Pittsburgh has a pretty good shot in New England. I think they will pull it off.

2 hours ago, Cville-Raven said:

lol the chiefs are so useless in the playoffs. Great in the regular season but they just find ways to lose. This is still the same team that blew a 21 point halftime lead to the colts a couple years ago. Alex smith and Andy Reid aren't good enough .

I agree. I think Andy Reid is 1-5 in his last 6 playoff games.

1 hour ago, rmcjacket23 said:

1. Nobody seriously thinks that the GM didn't know they were firing Rex. He likely knew that they were firing Rex weeks before they even decided that they were firing Rex. That's just a PR story he puts out so that he can save face.

2. Whether they are a top tier organization or a joke of an organization doesn't matter a ton, mostly because there are only 32 of said organizations in total. In any given year there's only a handful of teams actively looking for a QB upgrade and are willing to pay somebody like Tyrod decent money to be their guy. So when one of those teams themselves decides that he's not worth it, its very telling to the rest of the league.

I'm not saying he won't get another gig either, because he very well might. But this upcoming offseason will be particularly interesting, mostly because there's some potential for some starting-quality QBs to be available for other teams to have, namely guys like Cutler and Romo potentially.

-So the GM put out that story to save face at the expense of the owner? That's a pretty bad PR strategy for his longevity.

-Again, in the flux of uncertainty, you want flexibility. They have not made any decision yet. They just sat him to retain that flexibility. 

If I am Buffalo and my goal is to beat New England for the division title, I don't think Tyrod is that guy. He has his limitations.

1 hour ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Or, as I said, you bring in an OC who can design a system to fit his personnel's strengths, and that would potentially include Tyrod. A smart organization doesn't do what you're suggesting... pick a coordinator and then pick the personnel. Coordinators aren't important enough and don't have the level of job security that players do, which is they turn over as frequently or more frequently than good players do.

I'm not arguing over why the benched him... it was a smart move on their part. My point is that them benching him also is an indication of a lack of confidence in him long term, as we've seen since they have publicly even acknowledged that they don't know what his situation is or whether he will be with the team next year. 

Put it this way... if it were a Dak Prescott or a Carson Wentz that was QB for the Bills, and they had the same contract and same situation (i.e. they could bench him in week 17 to protect him from injury and help with guaranteed money decisions), I guarantee they send both of those guys out there to play and take the injury risk. 

Basically the Bills are telling us what we already knew... he's a fringe NFL starter and they're not sure whether to roll with him for the next few years or start over at the position again.

I would not infer too much from that decision as we are talking about a 2nd rate organization. Here is an organization that fired the HC without the GM knowing about it. They did this 1 game prior to the end of the season.

With this much uncertainty in leadership, coupled with wholesale changes at coaching, it is more about flexibility than anything.

Hey I like Flacco, but will he just show up and play up to his potential in the regular season? I hope he proves me wrong.

7 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

No, actually it has nothing with the philosophy of the organization, because if the QB is good enough that the organization has confidence in him to lead them, then the QB isn't the one that changes it philosophy... the organization is the one that changes its philosophy. Specifically, they change their philosophy to fit the strengths of said QBs.

Its actually pretty rare that an organization even has the opportunity or ability to select a QB to lead their team that already matches an organizational philosophy. Due to the extreme scarcity of the position, this rarely happens. In most cases, the organization takes over the identity of the player, because he's that valuable. 

We see them with literally every great QB in this league, past or present.

What we simply don't see is a team moving on from a good QB because they don't think he fits the "philosophy" of the organization. That really doesn't happen in the NFL. 

This has everything to do with one simple question for the Bills... "do I think this guy is good enough to be the QB of the future for this team". If the answer is yes, you pay him. If its not, you move on.

 

If you are trying to attract an OC like the Bills currently are, you want to keep your options open, so that the personnel you have can actually run the system the new OC wants to run. Tyrod obviously has limitations, so whether the Bills decide to exercise their option is mainly a matter of financial concern. (i.e. guaranteed money if injured).

The Bills are a terribly run organization so I wouldn't try to make sense of their talent evaluation.

When you have coaching changes, the philosophy changes. The personnel you have the ''option'' of changing should be granted somewhat to the influence of the new coaching staff. If they played Tyrod and he got injured severely, the Bills would be stuck and have no flexibility as his contract becomes guaranteed. That's why they benched him. It was not whether he played well or not.

5 hours ago, Ravensfan23 said:

We're talking about Flacco having possibly the worse 2 season stretch in his career. That's pretty low hanging fruit for anyone comparing Tyrod or any other QB for that matter to Joe.  

I don't think these past 2 regular seasons is that much different than his career averages in the regular season. His QBR is low 80s on average. People have selective memory, they just remember the Super Bowl run and the big games (and rightfully so) but in the regular season, Flacco has been mostly pedestrian.

He's kind of like Peyton Manning except the opposite. He stinks it up in the regular season, but lights it up in the playoffs.

I rest my case.

Flacco is part of the solution, but management would be wise to draft a star on the offence that can actually carry the load in the regular season. History says we just cannot rely on January Joe to show up that early in the season.

44 minutes ago, RayRayRaven said:

we would have finished with a better record with t.taylor fur sur.  still don't want to trade for him. we can get some great draft position by tradin joe though. lemonade from a lemon.  jonny many ravyan fans just aren't gonna let go of joe. hopefully our owner gets dollar wise. if we are gonna hit a dry spell and we have, its best to get something out of it. the way we are goin we gonna be stuck in the same  place well into the next deccade

I wouldn't go that far. Joe is part of the solution. We are stuck with Joe because of the contract but if we can draft a guy like Dalvin Cook and run the offence around him, it would be fine. If we expect January Joe to show up in the regular season, I think that is a bit wanting.

56 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

So wouldn't the team of a "good" QB not be concerned about guaranteeing money for a QB who is actually "good"? I mean we're only talking about like, what, $30M guaranteed? Practically chump change for even a "game manager" by NFL standards. So what exactly are they afraid of?

So when the Bills voluntarily don't pick up his option, and make him a FA, what will your explanation for that decision be then?

Can you give me the recent names of "good" QBs who actually ever hit free agency? Would be highly interested in getting the names of those players.

Look forward to that list.

Thanks

It has nothing to do whether the QB is ''good'' or not. It is a matter whether the QB ''fits'' the philosophy of the organization going forward. As an organization, I think what they are doing is giving themselves flexibility. If they are changing coaching philosophies then they would want to keep their options open. Tyrod is obviously a different type of QB than your traditional pocket passer, but this does not negate the fact that he has performed well over the past 2 years.

If you believe Flacco has outplayed Tyrod in the regular season in the last 2 years, convince me.

Whether an organization chooses to exercise an option on a quarterback has no bearing on whether the QB is good or not. It is a matter of fit and value in most cases.

37 minutes ago, flynismo said:

Wow, I can only imagine what would be said here if Flacco threw a pick like the one Russell Wilson just did.  

At least he made the playoffs.

36 minutes ago, flynismo said:

The funny thing is Flacco has more Super Bowl MVPs than Tyrod...

Hey Joe, what have you done for me lately?

Not much...

And he might never have another one of those if he continues to play like he does in the regular season.

If you are happy with his regular season play, then that's on you. Jay Cutler has a better QBR than Flacco in the regular season. That says it all.

16 minutes ago, PurpleCity5 said:

Lmao, Bills were talking about benching Taylor and you're saying he's outplaying Flacco? He's in a run 1st and run heavy offense at that which isn't demanding him to do too much. In his two seasons he's barely eclipsed 3000 Yards passing, in terms of passing attempts Buffalo is literally dead last in the league opposite of Baltimore who is #1. Taylor really isn't asked to do a whole lot, that's probably why Buffalo hasn't even committed to him, because they want to see more from him before giving him a really big deal. 

It's actually not that far fetched. Taylor has also 1100 yards rushing and another 10 TDs. He threw more TDs and less INTs. I'm not saying I'd rather have Taylor over Flacco to build a franchise but the numbers do not lie. 

In the regular season, Flacco is more like Jay Cutler than he is like anything that resembles "elite". Flacco's best attributes is that he plays well in the clutch--a rare attribute. Unfortunately if he doesn't play in any big games, he is rather pedestrian and the numbers support that. In fact, Jay Cutler's career QBR rating is higher than Flacco's. That I find comical.

Facts:

-Taylor has more WINs the last 2 years

-Taylor has more Pro Bowl nods

-Taylor has thrown more TDs (despite less passing attempts)

-Taylor has thrown less INTs

-Taylor has rushed for over 1100 yards

-Taylor has rushed for 10 TDs

-Taylor has a higher QBR rating over the last 2 years (he is top 10 in QBR rating)

The reason the Bills benched Taylor is because of financial reasons and the guaranteed money in his contract, plus the fact that they have new coaching next year.

Again your argument or lack thereof of one is not a very convincing one.

On 1/11/2017 at 11:41 AM, Club Sec. 217 Seat 2 said:

I just think he (Wilson) strikes me as the more complete corner.  If it makes sense to put it this way...when I watch Jones the biggest thing that stands out to me is his ability to play the ball really go up high point the ball and take it away from the WR and thats great he puts himself in position to do that on deep balls...now when I watch Wilson..the biggest thing that stands out to me are his man coverage skills, how he stays with quick receivers where ever they go he is pretty much right in their pocket, and then also his ability to get out of his breaks and make plays on the ball that way...they both do things that are very valuable the question is what do you really prefer...when i watched film initially I thought by first glance that Jones might be alittle long but Wilson is a bit bigger...they both will come up and pop ball carriers but Wilson may be a bit tougher/meaner as well

I agree with this. What I like about Jones is if you throw the deep ball on him, there is a good chance he will pick it off because he plays the ball so well. This is something we have been missing in our secondary and puts fear into QBs. We already have Jimmy who is similar to Q. Wilson. My issue with Jimmy is he is not the type of corner who will intercept that deep ball, as he's more likely to bat it down.

I think Jones is the better tackler. Speed wise, I think they are both similar as I googled it earlier and they run like 4.45-4.50ish. Jones is that lanky, cover corner with good technique and plays the ball well in the air.

I think Wilson has more upside but I think Jones is a more solid, sure pick.

3 minutes ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

Only bc Joe turned down his alternate invite. Otherwise they'd be tied. Sorry maybe next time. 

 

And played better based on what exactly?

http://www.nfl.com/player/tyrodtaylor/2495240/careerstats

http://www.nfl.com/player/joeflacco/382/careerstats

AVG for last 2 years:

QBR rating Taylor 95.0

QBR rating Flacco 83.0

TDs / Ints

Taylor 37TD/12Ints

Flacco 34TD/27Ints

Taylor also had 1100 yards rushing for another 10 TDs and 1 Pro Bowl selection.

Hey I will take Taylor in the regular season and Flacco in the playoffs.

28 minutes ago, allblackraven said:

After suffering through stupidity of these 90+ pages for a while, I just remembered the good old times and "Tyrod is better" thread.

Sigh....

The funny thing is Tyrod has more Pro Bowls than Flacco. Regular season Joe is hardly better than Regular Season Tyrod. 

In fact in the regular season, Tyrod has performed better in the last 2 years.

1 hour ago, RayRayRaven said:

 

johnny its really difficult to understand how some fans really think joe is gonna put the team on his back and carry it.  2016 was his best year in yardage but his td to int rate was mediocre at best and he threw often.  I'd like to trade joe this offseason for a one and a two, eat the losses and be in position to grab usc sam darnold if he declares.  if darnold plays his junior season we need to be ready to draft him then.  joe is a lifetime middling rank qb and his one playoff run is not enough to hope he can repeat that one hit wonder.

boldin was our go to guy and has never been replaced, not even SSS was as pivotal.  your point that flacco got even less out of him is noted and likely accurate. but flacco had just really developed a relationship with him. oz and company were not close to understanding that relationship and we continue to pay the price as they struggle to undersand joe and the draft in general

You have to be careful using the word "carry" around here. Sensitive Flacco die hards take it to mean passing and catching and scoring TDs by himself... and playing defence too.

This I know, if we are expecting Flacco to be the main reason we are in the playoffs like he was the main reason why we won the Super Bowl, we can expect to be 8-8 next year as well. I guess I hope a record like 9-7, 8-8, or 7-9 gets us in the playoffs. We need a star on the offence that can carry the load in the regular season. 

2 hours ago, Tdot.to.Bmore said:

2013 wasnt bad, it just sucks that we missed on our two top picks. If you look at that draft overall it was decent. We got one of the best NT in the league in the 3rd. A pro bowl Full back and an above average RT in Wagner. Also i think we gave up on John Simon to early, hes been playing well in Houston and Jenson has been a capable back up. So no it was not a bad draft class. If williams, wagner and juice were are first 3 picks then you would not being saying that.

2013 for the whole NFL was a bad draft class. Thats why a miss with Elam in the first and Brown in the second is a bit misguided because there were very few good players in that draft. 2013 for the Baltimore Ravens was a good draft in totality given the poor players available.

5 hours ago, sizzlingdoom said:

And how on earth can you say Elam is the only miss?????

Elam-obvious miss, directly cost us a chance at a ring with his inability to tackle
KC- early yes, but a lot of us think he looks like our next Arthur Brown. Or maybe he'll be good enough to play special teams eventually
Maxx Williams was a second rounder we traded up for- ZERO production
Brooks- ZERO production and cut
Carl Davis-ZERO production
Jah Reid- ZERO production
Ed Dickson- caught a couple passes but had awful hands and not much production at all
Perriman- still early but never should've been picked in the first. I got in trouble at woodstocks when they picked him cuz I spit Beer on the TV in disbelief- on accident.
Arthur Brown- Zero production after what, 4 years? think we traded up for him too
Upshaw- you're telling me we spent a high second on someone hoping that all he could do is be a situational run stopper, I dont think so
Cody- bust
Kindle-bust, albeit through injury I believe, the stair accident I think

How is Elam the only miss on that list?

Elam is the only one as a first rounder. Therefore, there are higher expectations. 2nd rounders have less expectations and 3rd rounders less.

The only ''busts'' I see in your list are Elam (2013 1st rounder), Brown (2013 2nd rounder), Cody (2010 2nd rounder), Kindle (2010 2nd rounder) 

Brooks (2015 3rd rounder). The rest it is too early.

2013 was a bad draft class, go look at it. You obviously have not.

5 hours ago, sizzlingdoom said:

Sorry, I strongly disagree. I did look at NE. They picked multiple pro bowlers in the first over that span while moving down almost every single year and picking up extra 2nds and 3rds. I'm not comparing to anyone either. I understand a lot of teams whiff. I don't care about other teams. I hold our team to higher standard than just about every team in the league. Why would I compare our franchise to the browns and jags and such. Plus, there really aren't that many crappy franchises anymore. I just expect us to draft better.

Well you have to compare with other franchises because you have to benchmark your performance. That is how you measure performance no matter how you look at it. That's what Steve means when you grade on a "curve" (i.e. a bell curve). You can't just expect them to draft studs in the top 3 rounds every year, 100% of the time. It is unrealistic. You also have to look at the draft class because if the whole draft class produces 32-64 decent players, it's a bit unrealistic to expect us to nail 4 picks. Just go look at the whole 2013 draft class.

People who criticize Ozzie for drafting haven't looked deep enough (1) into the draft class or (2) into the comparison on how other teams draft. It is like they expect every player to be stars in the league.

Ozzie has nailed his Top 20 draft picks (Ronnie Stanley (6), CJ Mosley (17), Joe Flacco (19), Haloti Ngata (12)... Suggs, Reed etc)

3 hours ago, sizzlingdoom said:

there are so many names to add to that list.

Matt Elam
Perriman
Arthur Brown
Upshaw
Cody
Ed Dickson
Kindle
Jah Reid
Brooks
Carl Davis
Maxx Williams
KC

All 1rst, 2nd, and 3rd round picks. Not only are none of them even close to sniffing pro bowl talent, but most of them can't even contribute to a win or stay in the league. This is just the past 7 years. Coincidentally since Harbaugh put in his wonderful influence of drafting "high character and high IQ football players" GREAT. Don't know why this AWFUL staff is still "leading" the Ravens. It's discouraging at best. And yeah, awesome time to raise ticket prices. I laughed so hard out loud when I saw that and couldn't wait to read the comments

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/rav/draft.htm

You can't just selectively put names on the board as busts without comparing which team you are comparing our draft history to. Which teams do you think drafted better than us? Go look at New Englands draft history--especially early rounds.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nwe/draft.htm

The only real miss I see on the list is Matt Elam as he was a 1st round pick--albeit he was pretty much a second round pick (32nd). Ozzie has pretty much nailed our first round picks if you go back. Upshaw was no stud, but he was a serviceable 2nd rounder. Same as Dickson. Davis, Williams, KC, Perriman--way too early to determine.

5 minutes ago, Ravensfan23 said:

That aggressive mindset was by design. 

http://www.espn.com/blog/atlanta-falcons/post/_/id/22186/falcons-matt-ryan-dug-deeper-to-prepare-for-2016-season

In terms of Flacco not being comparable to Ryan in the accuracy category, accuracy is something that can be improve on. It goes back to the offseason work. The Ravens offseason has never really required  Flacco to be accurate which is probably why there has never really been much emphasis on Joe's mechanics. He could get away from throwing off his back foot because of a rocket arm. However now, he has to lock in on his mechanics more because this offense is about timing and precision. I will agree that it's unlikely to see such a jump for Flacco and this offense but I could see a big jump if Flacco improves in the areas needed. 

Where Ryan went into the offseason focused on improving the down field aspect of his game. Flacco has to focus on tightening up his mechanics that will lead to improved accuracy. He already has the arm talent to get the ball anywhere on the field, but those young gunslinger days are over. This offense needs him to be able to hit guys in stride both intermediate and deep or else the WCO won't work.  

Matt Ryan makes pre-snap reads and knows exactly where he is going. When you know where you are going because you've made the necessary adjustments based on the defence you see, you are likely to be more accurate than the QB who doesn't make these adjustments.

If there is one area I would really like to see Flacco improve on, this would be it. I'm not expecting him to be Manning or Brady pre-snap, but he has not shown the progress needed to get to the next level.

5 minutes ago, frozen joe flacco fan said:

My moniker has nothing to do with what I said about Boldin's career stats and his skill set. If you think that being a part of a Super Bowl team is a down year, then we have nothing further to discuss.

Hey, we are still waiting for Joe to show up. Where is that guy? I'm surprised somebody hasn't filed a missing persons report.

6'6 looks like a franchise QB, but nowhere to be seen from Sept - Nov.

Seeing Flacco perform like a franchise quarterback is like a UFO sighting.

Maybe he only performs well when it is ''frozen'' outside.

26 minutes ago, frozen joe flacco fan said:

So, what's your point? At one time, Anquan's career stats were better than Larry Fitzgerald's, his ole Arizona teammate. I'm not sure that's still the case but, putting it mildly, Boldin was and is a baller. I heard Owner Bisciotti's lame dissertation about not paying Anquan but I'm not drinking his cool aid. We let one of our best weapons, targets, receivers or ballers go and were able to bring in Darryl Smith and Elvis Doomerville. Last I heard, Boldin's still playing and we may be looking to release Elvis. Boldin would do something that so many of our receivers, other than SSS could not do and you know what that is, don't you?   

My point is people say that Flacco is not surrounded by any weapons; it is just not true. You can infer anything you would like, but the stats do not lie. Boldin for whatever reason had down years during his time in Baltimore.

It could be the QB or it could be not. I find Flacco die hards humorous. When he lights it up in the big games, it is "Flacco rises to the occasion". When he stinks it up in the regular season, it is "He has no talent around him".

I mean with a moniker like that, it is pretty clear where your position lies.

29 minutes ago, rossihunter2 said:

Virtually no teams picked up stars in 2013 draft - it was historically bad as an overall draft - so bad that tavon Austin would still go in the middle of the 1st round in a redraft - in Brandon Williams and Ricky Wagner we got at least 2 players out of the top 32 which is pretty good going considering neither of our top two picks did anything

Agree. If we look at the 2013 draft, Wagner and Williams probably go in round 1 or 2. It was a pretty bad draft class.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2013/draft.htm

Elam was a bust but he was pretty much a 2nd round draft pick. The jury is still out for 2015.

Is it me or if the 2017 Class in general is weak in the Offensive line, then these pass rushers are slightly overrated in this draft? 

Just a thought.