leziRav

  3 hours ago, Raven in ATL said:

gonna have to disagree with Suggs, losing for a better draft pick at this time isnt about creating character or a bad habit. its about being strategic, looking at the bigger picture, the future of the franchise. the season is lost, the game meaningless in the sense of playoff implications. the only things as players to play for is pride and incentive bonuses. dont let your pride get in the way of something bigger!

If we win and everyone else loses we get the 20th pick... if we lose and everyone else wins we end up with the 15th pick. In reality if we win... some others will do the same and we will end up somewhere between 16-19 regardless.

It is not like if we lose we jump into the top 10 and if we win... we fall out of the top 20. on the average we will pick around 17th... win or lose. So is a spot or two in the middle of the pack worth a non-winning season?

That's crazy. You win... especially against a team who has owned us over the past few years. You dominate a divisional foe and use that win to springboard into next season.

If we beat the Bengals... that leaves us at 5-1 in the AFC North for the year. That is a lot to build off of. But losing your final two and 3 of your last 4... that is a little harder to frame that going into next season

No the one or two spots you would gain (at best) is not worth what you would lose.... it has nothing to do with ego or pride and everything to do with setting us up with confidence knowing that we can dominate our division going into next year.

A split with the Bengals and Sqeelers would be a much harder sale then going 5-1 in the division.

We need to WIN this game!

I believe the Ravens will play to win no doubt. The record matters to coaches and players, there is a big difference between a 8-8 and a winning season. However I will be happy if you lose too. There is a difference between one spot or 2 in the draft, if not we would have J.Ramsey/ Ezeke in our team now.

Whatever you do Steve, retire as Panther or Raven, you will be loved in Bmore and in the country. I wish our young WRs could learn from you on how to compete.I wish you the best Steve.
Regarding Steve replacement I think Ashon Jeffery will be a free agent too, not bad to have him in the team, Pierre Garçon is not bad either,

I completely disagree that a change at HC is not needed. Harbs lost this team half way thru the 2012 season. They won the SB thanks to Ray, Ed and the gang. Since Ray and Ed's departure the Ravens have only made the playoffs once and nobody seems to remember that we had to mount a 4th Qrt comeback in Cleveland in week 17 that year and we still needed the help of a botched 25 yard field goal by KC vs SD. If the kick was good Pitt moved on to the playoffs but since KC missed we moved on. Look it up if you dont remember. And since then we missed the last 2 playoffs and have a combined losing record.

I do believe a change at DC is more urgent than a change in HC. Our Def has not been good for 4-5 years now. Regardless of what PFF or whomever says our defense was NEVER ranked #1 in the NFL this year. Its easy to pad your stats when you play Buff (OC fired 2 weeks later), Browns x2, Jags, Jets, Redskins, Cincy without AJ Green, Pitt with Big Ben 9 days removed from a meniscal cleanup and a bunch of other putrid offenses. The moment we played a decent team we got manhandled. If ya'll cant see that then you are blind.

Unfortunately nothing will happen with Harbs, Pees and company because we are still living in the past and not looking at the tendencies. This team's arrow is pointing downwards and needs a new injection of life, accountability and passion for winning. I thought this was a league of "what have you done for me LATELY?". Because I know what this team, especially Harbs with his poor clock management and overall clueless attitude, has done lately. Harbs has made way too many piss poor decisions in games and to top it off he couldn't seem prouder of his ineptitude when asked about it in post game pressers.

For these and many more reasons Harbs and Pees are no good for the Ravens moving forward.

"...and we still needed the help of a botched 25 yard field goal by KC vs SD. If the kick was good Pitt moved on to the playoffs but since KC missed we moved on" I believe that was the 2013 season, we finish 8-8 that year and did not make the playoff. Pitts did not make the playoffs that year neither. It was the Chargers who made it to the playoffs. KC VS SD, KC was already in the playoffs. SD was 8-7 a win take them to playoffs, a lose take Pitts to playoffs as about 5 teams would have 8-8 records and tie breaker go the squealers. Lucky Chargers made it.

  41 minutes ago, leziRav said:

  1 hour ago, ellicottraven said:

I really don't know what ails our Ravens and what needs fixing. I do know one thing though. Harbaugh hasn't been a winning coach since winning the SB and something needs to give. His loyalty to his coaches may be one of the reasons why we are not very good. Harbaugh isn't known for his football acumen with Xs and Os, but is a strong leader and motivator of people. Those are the top qualities needed in a HC and Harbs excels in them. However, he needs to hire the best football coaches available regardless of his knowledge of or closeness to them. The hiring of Trestman over Adam Gase comes to mind as telling of his decision making. Gase is taking the Dolphins into the playoffs and Trestman is fired.
We need a creative offensive mind and I'm all for hiring Rex Ryan as a defensive consultant much like Al Saunders was on offense a few years ago.

if you follow the Ravens closely, the hiring of Trestman over Gase made sense, the Ravens knew Gase was going to be a head coach so they wanted consistency but it did not work with Trestman. I agree with your point that we need a creative OC but who now? We have to bear in mind that we want someone who will stay for at least 3 to 4 yrs. We cannot hire a HC candidate to be our OC.

I agree on not hiring Gase, but Kyle Shanahan would of been a nice hire after leaving Cleveland in 2014, he is doing great in Atlanta.

Yes I agree but we pass on Shanahan over Kubiak in 2014, In 2015 we went over Trestman due to stability. Shanahan is going to be a HC next season or a season later. I think there will also be risk picking an OC but we have minimizing the risk and go with our gut. It is not that easy, I hope we get a better OC who will stay for a while.

I really don't know what ails our Ravens and what needs fixing. I do know one thing though. Harbaugh hasn't been a winning coach since winning the SB and something needs to give. His loyalty to his coaches may be one of the reasons why we are not very good. Harbaugh isn't known for his football acumen with Xs and Os, but is a strong leader and motivator of people. Those are the top qualities needed in a HC and Harbs excels in them. However, he needs to hire the best football coaches available regardless of his knowledge of or closeness to them. The hiring of Trestman over Adam Gase comes to mind as telling of his decision making. Gase is taking the Dolphins into the playoffs and Trestman is fired.
We need a creative offensive mind and I'm all for hiring Rex Ryan as a defensive consultant much like Al Saunders was on offense a few years ago.

if you follow the Ravens closely, the hiring of Trestman over Gase made sense, the Ravens knew Gase was going to be a head coach so they wanted consistency but it did not work with Trestman. I agree with your point that we need a creative OC but who now? We have to bear in mind that we want someone who will stay for at least 3 to 4 yrs. We cannot hire a HC candidate to be our OC.

Let me first say I love Joe, but business is business.

The Ravens are projected to be $14,239,178 UNDER the cap and have to find a way to resign top priority guys like unrestricted free agents Brandon Williams, and Kyle Jusczyk. Plus, restricted free agents like Terrence West, Ricky Wagner, Ryan Jensen, Zachary Orr. Joe Flacco’s cap number for 2017 is $24.55M.

The Denver Broncos are projected to be $30,225,385 UNDER the cap for 2017 and have 38 players under contract. All of their main guys are locked up.
I wonder what type of trade could be made. Denver is in desperate need of a QB, and Joe knows their offense. Baltimore would get the cap relief it needs to retool the team.

no sense, you let Joe goes who is going to be your QB. Please don't tell me Mallet, cause I will refer you to his time with the Houston Texans.

  5 hours ago, ravens4life86 said:

Totally disagree on saying this team didnt underachieve, Eisenberg.
Any time you miss the playoffs you under achieve if your the Ravens organization, any time you dont make any kind of playoff run its a bad season.
Last year was a fluke because 20plus injuries, this year was 2 fold season long lack of commitment to running the football, which eventually would catch up to this team and Jimmy Smith being injured in the biggesr games.(Nyg,Steelers,Cowboys,Pats) all probably very different outcomes if Jimmy could stay healtier throughout his career.
Finally Steve B put the hammer down on demanding pass rush last year, yet they passed over local stud Yannik Nkaqwe, Noah Spence and many others for bums and nice guys like Correa and Koufusis.
We are done with nice guys. How many times does Mike Preston have to say it, fans, hosts on 1057 the fan, we need the edgy, nasty players back.
They better draft 1-2 15 sack dpoy von miller, sizzle in his prime type edge rushers this year, and another elite cb since jimmy is always hurt

My wish would be
Ravens are currently sitting at 16
Rnd 1 pk 16
Olbr/de charles Harris Mizzou, Barnett Tenn, Smoot Illinois
Rnd 2 Cb Tredavious White Lsu, Jordin Lewis Mich, Cordea Tankersley Clem,
Rnd 3 Amarah Darboh Wr, Dede Westbrook Wr,
Rnd 3 comp for KO Budda Baker S/CB, Eddie Jackson S
Rnd 4 OG /NT Mason Cole mich, Vanderdoes ucla,
Rnd 5 NT/OG

Ravens are current sitting at 17 pk. Depend on Sunday game, we can go as high at 14pk or as low as 20pk. Maybe we should use some of our TEs in a trade and move up high to draft a game changer. There are few teams up in the draft that need TEs and WR. We have right now Pitta, Gilmore, Boyle, Max, Waller, Watson. We won't need all of them next year. Trading couple of them to move up will be nice.
Also we will need a nasty/starter center/G, maybe in 2nd, 3rd rounds or trade.
On the other side, don't give up on Correi and Kaufusi. Let see their development. Maybe next year we will be able to judge them.

Actually our best scenario will be pk 15 not 14. If both the Saints and Titans win and we lose Sunday then we will be at pk 15.
source:
http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2016/12/24/14076782/nfl-draft-order-2017-49ers-browns-bears-jaguars

Totally disagree on saying this team didnt underachieve, Eisenberg.
Any time you miss the playoffs you under achieve if your the Ravens organization, any time you dont make any kind of playoff run its a bad season.
Last year was a fluke because 20plus injuries, this year was 2 fold season long lack of commitment to running the football, which eventually would catch up to this team and Jimmy Smith being injured in the biggesr games.(Nyg,Steelers,Cowboys,Pats) all probably very different outcomes if Jimmy could stay healtier throughout his career.
Finally Steve B put the hammer down on demanding pass rush last year, yet they passed over local stud Yannik Nkaqwe, Noah Spence and many others for bums and nice guys like Correa and Koufusis.
We are done with nice guys. How many times does Mike Preston have to say it, fans, hosts on 1057 the fan, we need the edgy, nasty players back.
They better draft 1-2 15 sack dpoy von miller, sizzle in his prime type edge rushers this year, and another elite cb since jimmy is always hurt

My wish would be
Ravens are currently sitting at 16
Rnd 1 pk 16
Olbr/de charles Harris Mizzou, Barnett Tenn, Smoot Illinois
Rnd 2 Cb Tredavious White Lsu, Jordin Lewis Mich, Cordea Tankersley Clem,
Rnd 3 Amarah Darboh Wr, Dede Westbrook Wr,
Rnd 3 comp for KO Budda Baker S/CB, Eddie Jackson S
Rnd 4 OG /NT Mason Cole mich, Vanderdoes ucla,
Rnd 5 NT/OG

Ravens are current sitting at 17 pk. Depend on Sunday game, we can go as high at 14pk or as low as 20pk. Maybe we should use some of our TEs in a trade and move up high to draft a game changer. There are few teams up in the draft that need TEs and WR. We have right now Pitta, Gilmore, Boyle, Max, Waller, Watson. We won't need all of them next year. Trading couple of them to move up will be nice.
Also we will need a nasty/starter center/G, maybe in 2nd, 3rd rounds or trade.
On the other side, don't give up on Correi and Kaufusi. Let see their development. Maybe next year we will be able to judge them.

You guys act like you know how to run an organization, we don t make the playoffs let fire everyone and we start from zero, right? Give me the name of a HC who has a better record than Harbs and that the ravens can get. How many 8-8 and losing seasons Jason Garet had before he took the Cowboys to this level. How many losing season has Sean Payton had since he won the Superbowl. How many playoffs wins and SB has Andy Reid. How many playoffs appeareance has Bruce Arians. Those are among the best coaches in the league. Now compare them to Harbs record. Look at the 49ers, great team with Jim Harbs but what happened to them when he was fired. Firing harbs is not going to solve our problem. We need a better OC maybe DC. Then we have to fill the holes in the defense. You just don't fire your HC and the FO because they did not make playoff. This FO gave us 2 SBs and a lot of playoffs wins in 20 years while some teams were in the league for ever and don t have a SB. Chill people we have a great organization and we will be fine going forward.

To RavenNation I just say RELAX. We have a great organization, Ozzie is the best, Harbaugh is great HC. We are close to be a dominant team. I hope we lose the game against the Bengals so our draft position could be as high as 14pick. I hope we use some of our TEs in a trade to move up even higher in the draft and get our next Suggs. What you think? We should the season behind us and look forward to the free agency and draft.

30 minutes ago, gr2522 said:

The day has arrived. Now Steve must make the decision on which way to steer his team. Should Harbaugh stay and continue leading the charge, or should he be fired and maybe someone like Josh McDaniels be given an opportunity to turn this team around. Should the Marty and Pees also be fired? The Ravens need to shore up the pass rush with youthful players who can pressure opposing QBs. The Ravens also need a stud cornerback who can stay healthy. Heck, even a playmaking wide receiver. However, who should lead the team??????

Why do you want Harbaugh to be fired for Josh Mcdaniels? Do you think he is better than Harbaugh? Have you seen in time the Broncos when he was HC there? Come on people, really fired Harbaugh, one of the best coaches in the league, the guy had only one losing season and that was because of injuries. You don t just fire just a coach because he did not make playoff. The issue with this team is not Harbaugh, we just don't have play makers on both sides of the ball, we are getting there, the blueprint is there. We just need some DBs, pass rushers, upgrade the O-line and get a better OC. We have a great organization and cannot throw it away by hiring the HC or Ozzie. 

the key to winning will be LESS Flacco, run the damn ball!

I won't say less Flacco but we need to run the ball, score points and keep Ben and their offense off the field. I really don't have any trust on our defense especially the secondary to contain their offense. The only way we are going to win this Sunday is our offense. If our offense does not step up, game over for us and we will focus on the offseason and our draft position.

I think only sport journalists, coaches, GMs and team captains should vote for the pro bowl. Fans should not vote because they vote with their feeling. Maybe we should have the probowlers ( voted by journalists, coaches, GMs as best players of the league) and then All Stars game where players are voting by fans. Right now the pro bowl selection is a joke.

Actually, I'm always quite baffled at how a lot of people take the Pro Bowl so seriously. Where the "best" players are supposed to be honoured in a sport that has tons of exact and correct stats to measure performance - and the "best ones" are still determined by voting... It's like determining the talles guy from a given set by, instead of comparing their actual heights, having others vote about who's the tallest...
IMHO it's rather hard to take it any kind of seriously...

I think only sport journalists, coaches, GMs and team captains should vote for the pro bowl. Fans should not vote because they vote with their feeling. Maybe we should have the probowlers ( voted by journalists, coaches, GMs as best players of the league) and then All Stars game where players are voting by fans. Right now the pro bowl selection is a joke.

Anyone know the best 2 CBs that are gonna be in the draft this year?

Michigan Jabril Peppers can be a CB, safety, LB and KR/PR specialist. But it will be very hard to get him because we will be picking in the 20's. Peppers looks like a top 10 pick. I still have hope that Keenan will be a good KR/PR specialist and a very good jet sweep WR who can throw the ball.

  1 hour ago, Militant X 1 said:

Kick the ball anywhere near Hester and he won't catch it.  He'll just watch it hit the ground and roll in your favor.

Well, Hester won't be catching anything anymore.  HE GONE!

Can Campanaro stay healthy?  Can he last three games and a playoff run?

Campanaro is not a good returner. He will just be decent, maybe calling for fair catch. I hope we get a dangerous returner in the offseason. Maybe Reynolds will be one. I don't have faith on Campanaro.

  14 minutes ago, leziRav said:

  44 minutes ago, RavensBaltimore said:

  1 hour ago, bioLarzen said:

  1 hour ago, TheConquerorWorm said:

  2 hours ago, fusuymada said:

1 coaching
a. Penalties, 8 years now we have been told its on the coach. We continue to implode when driving with stupid penalties. How long, how long?
b. urgency, for 8 years we have been saying that someone needs to light a fire under Flacco, he needs to show he is in a hurry,
c. Field smarts, for 8 years we have said that Flacco is not a field manager. He barely has a hand full of plays he can check to, he can't even see the front line fill the hole he is getting ready to give the back the ball to run into. he cant even step back and call a timeout when in doubt
d. run-pass efficiency for 8 years we have been saying that for Flacco to be successful that there has to be some sort of equality in runs and passes, yet here we go again with a Flacco throwfest that just wants to make us throw up.

I am stopping here because I think you get the picture. Flacco has many imperfections but if nobody is going to tell him to fix it, he is the proverbial lazy boy who leaves his socks in the middle of the floor until mommy tells him to pick them up. For 8 years we have been waiting for someone to tell Flacco to pick up his socks along.

Same with everything else that just keeps occurring. Someone needs to coach and it looks like the inmates are running the asylum.

And for 6 of those 8 years, you watched Flacco lead the Ravens in the play-offs including winning a SB.

SMH....Some people are just miserable pessimists

... and others still see the playoff Flacco of years ago when he utterly obviously isn't the same player now...

Do you think that's closer to reality?

I don't. Flacco looks the same to me. Neither his arm strength nor his accuracy have diminished. People like to bash the qb when the offense struggles, but the reality is that the there are too many drops and penalties, no run game, and we have never had an OC that makes good adjustments. Despite that, we still have a chance to make the playoffs. Our only 2 losses in the last 6 games have been to the 2 best teams in the league, on the road, by 10 and 7 points.

I agree. We are going to see those teams again. Then it will be our time to take revenge. Remember this date. I said the Ravens will meet and beat the Pats in playoffs and then go to beat the cowboys in SB ( ok that was the purple cool aid). But really this team has talents everywhere. Time will come one day this year or next year when thing will click. Then it will be a Ravens dynasty for a while. Next year we will get a better OC and build get some good defense backs in the offseason. I just say patience Ravensnation, patience, patience.

he was elite for 4 games and that was 4 years ago. since the big $$ he has been a tad better than kyle boller and with that money you need to carry a team on your back like brady and the other top dogs do. i still believe we should see what we can get for him in a trade and free ourselves from that contract. brady showed fire and passion last night and the team responded. joe and the offense play with no fire or passion until it is too late.

Joe is Joe, not Brady. Every QB has their own personalities and skills. They are all different. Joe is a good decent QB. The team need to be built around Joe'skill. When Joe had a healthy Pitta, A Boldin, T Smith and J.Jones with a good OL and good running game, He was playing like an elite ( SB wins and a lot of playoffs wins) . This year we have Pitta back, some burner WRs, RB Dixon. We just need to work on our OL and get an OC who will work around Joe skills. Then we will need our defense to hold team in second half. We could have win yesterday and the game against the cowboys had our defense stopped them in the 4th quarter. So the future is bright for us. All we need is to work on our OL and defensive backs during the offseason then we will be in SB talk every year. Joe is a good QB.

  42 minutes ago, bioLarzen said:

  1 hour ago, TheConquerorWorm said:

  2 hours ago, fusuymada said:

1 coaching
a. Penalties, 8 years now we have been told its on the coach. We continue to implode when driving with stupid penalties. How long, how long?
b. urgency, for 8 years we have been saying that someone needs to light a fire under Flacco, he needs to show he is in a hurry,
c. Field smarts, for 8 years we have said that Flacco is not a field manager. He barely has a hand full of plays he can check to, he can't even see the front line fill the hole he is getting ready to give the back the ball to run into. he cant even step back and call a timeout when in doubt
d. run-pass efficiency for 8 years we have been saying that for Flacco to be successful that there has to be some sort of equality in runs and passes, yet here we go again with a Flacco throwfest that just wants to make us throw up.

I am stopping here because I think you get the picture. Flacco has many imperfections but if nobody is going to tell him to fix it, he is the proverbial lazy boy who leaves his socks in the middle of the floor until mommy tells him to pick them up. For 8 years we have been waiting for someone to tell Flacco to pick up his socks along.

Same with everything else that just keeps occurring. Someone needs to coach and it looks like the inmates are running the asylum.

And for 6 of those 8 years, you watched Flacco lead the Ravens in the play-offs including winning a SB.

SMH....Some people are just miserable pessimists

... and others still see the playoff Flacco of years ago when he utterly obviously isn't the same player now...

Do you think that's closer to reality?

I don't. Flacco looks the same to me. Neither his arm strength nor his accuracy have diminished. People like to bash the qb when the offense struggles, but the reality is that the there are too many drops and penalties, no run game, and we have never had an OC that makes good adjustments. Despite that, we still have a chance to make the playoffs. Our only 2 losses in the last 6 games have been to the 2 best teams in the league, on the road, by 10 and 7 points.

I agree. We are going to see those teams again. Then it will be our time to take revenge. Remember this date. I said the Ravens will meet and beat the Pats in playoffs and then go to beat the cowboys in SB ( ok that was the purple cool aid). But really this team has talents everywhere. Time will come one day this year or next year when thing will click. Then it will be a Ravens dynasty for a while. Next year we will get a better OC and build get some good defense backs in the offseason. I just say patience Ravensnation, patience, patience.

Dang. Pittsburgh looked really good against the Jets yesterday. Even with the three picks, Bell was unstoppable and Taylor just couldn't mount much of an offense.

I am one nervous puppy.

Same here. I am scare and I don't have a good feeling about the Dec 25 game at Pitts. I think we have to win tonight and win the eagle game. Hopefully Bengals will drop the Steelers. Then even if you loose at Pitts, we will win the division by winning at Bengals.

  1 hour ago, leziRav said:

Your points are valid. But we don't know if he is going to cost us that money. Panthers tagged Norman and release him before the deadline when they could not sign him. Anyway you made valid points. Maybe we can get him for less. I really want us to keep our front 7 intact and work on our secondary. The weakness of our defense is the secondary and it is still not fixed yet. We could not stop any team that went heavy on pass ( Raiders, Redskins, Steelers in 4th Q, Cowboys etc,) I think the Pats game will be a test for our secondary. The only way they can beat us is through our secondary. If they hold against the Pats then I will trust them. Till now I don't have any faith on our secondary. Maybe the pass rush will help.

And that was a gigantic mistake by the Panthers. Not even so much so releasing him, but to basically hold up that level of money for that long of a period of time. That's why you rarely see that happen.

That's the downside of the franchise tag for Williams. Look at the scenarios:

1. You franchise tag him in March, and you sign him to an extension, which most likely won't happen until at least May or June. The extension will undoubtedly be for a lower salary cap hit than the $14M franchise tag. So lets say aggressively its $10M (which it would likely be lower in year 1), that's $4M you couldn't spend from March until May/June, which by that point, a lot of the better FAs have long since signed elsewhere.

2. You franchise tag him and you don't reach a long term extension. You keep him for one year at $14M, which is likely at least a couple million dollars more than his market value. And you're back in the same boat the next season.

3. You franchise tag him and then release him when he doesn't agree to an extension. Probably the worst of the options. For starters, you lock up $14M in cap space from the day you tag him until the day you rescind it. This could be a month later or several months later, and there's no way of knowing, since franchise tag players have until like July to sign extensions. So you lock up $14M of cap space that you can't spend for the bulk of the FA period, AND then you pull the offer and cut the player loose. So you've got $14M in cap space to spend on what is now a mostly dried up FA market, AND you lost the player.

I don't know about you, but none of these scenarios seem particularly appealing. That's why they only work on guys who's market value is relatively equal to the franchise tag amount (i.e. Justin Tucker). When that happens, option 2 is gone, because market value = franchise tag value, and the gap between franchise tag amount and first year extension amount is oftentimes far less in option 1 when market value = franchise tag value.

It is uncharacteristic for Ozzie to tag a player but I will take my chance on option 3 rather than just lose him to free agent first wave. Anyway Ozzie make his free agent signing late, not at the beginning of the wave. We lost Osemele and affect our OL big time. We will survive losing Williams but I rather have him than lose him and I will take him over Jernigan if choice comes to that. I believe Ozzie will get it done.

  43 minutes ago, leziRav said:

I agree but honestly I think we can have both, Williams is the best NT right and he is even better off field. We can franchise tagged him to keep him out of the free agent market like we did with Tucker then before deadline sign him. If not, I agree we have to let him walk. Also remimber we have Kaufusi, I believe he will be a good pass rusher DE. So we don't have really worry about Jernigan. I will take Williams over Jernigan.

1. Could care less what he's like off the field. 

2. No team is going to pay a run stopping NT $14M. Its a team killing contract. He could be the best run stopping NT of all-time, and he's not worth close to $14M. He's on the sidelines 40% of the time we are on defense anyway. 

Frankly, there's no guarantee we would even have $14M to spend on a franchise tag, and you can't just tag somebody and wait five months to sign them to a LT deal. It works with Tucker, because Tucker costs like $5M, and the franchise tag and the amount he got paid were very close. That won't be the case with Williams most likely.

Its completely and utterly not even worth discussing, because there's no chance in the world he gets franchise tagged.

As for Jernigan, I could argue both sides. Kaufusi has never played an NFL snap, and for all we know, he could be a Brent Urban or a Kapron-Lewis Moore. He's far from a guarantee to pan out. In terms of Williams replacement, we already know that Michael Pierce is pretty good and can play well. Brandon Williams isn't like $13-14M better than Michael Pierce.

I want to resign Williams as much as anybody, but its not a "must sign or we suck" scenario.

I think most people in the business would tell you that most good defenses generally pay top tier money to pass rushers and corners. Brandon Williams does neither.

Your points are valid. But we don't know if he is going to cost us that money. Panthers tagged Norman and release him before the deadline when they could not sign him. Anyway you made valid points. Maybe we can get him for less. I really want us to keep our front 7 intact and work on our secondary. The weakness of our defense is the secondary and it is still not fixed yet. We could not stop any team that went heavy on pass ( Raiders, Redskins, Steelers in 4th Q, Cowboys etc,) I think the Pats game will be a test for our secondary. The only way they can beat us is through our secondary. If they hold against the Pats then I will trust them. Till now I don't have any faith on our secondary. Maybe the pass rush will help.

  28 minutes ago, VermontRaven said:

  52 minutes ago, leziRav said:

I agree, we have to sign Williams, if we can't sign him the offseason then we have to put a franchise tag on him. He is the best and he is in his prime so Ozzie will sign him. I know it is not time to talk about the offseason yet, we have to make the playoffs but the future is bright for a dominant Ravens in NFL. Once we sign Williams and Orr, then we can let Wangler walk away if his price is expensive, we have Alex Lewis who can play RT. Also we will have to spend some draft picks on OL anyway ( quality back up Center, guard, and tackle). I think our front 7 is the best, no need to spend draft picks there, our draft picks should go the secondary and OL. I wish we pick a first round CB and move T.Young to safety. I see him as a good ball hawk, play maker safety. I don't think so he will survive as outside CB with his size. We will see once the offseason come.

No way that happens, the current franchise tag for defensive tackles is $13.4 million. (and I'm sure that will go up a little for next year)  I love B-Will but doesn't make sense to overpay for an interior defensive lineman.  Ozzie and Co. are great at finding good to great interior defensive linemen.  At that price, I'd rather we let BWill go and use that money elsewhere (WR, CB, Pass rusher, etc.)

Defensive tackle: $13.4 million ($10.7 million)

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000636218/article/estimated-2016-franchise-tag-figures

We are good at WR and pass rusher, we just have to work with those young WRs and pass rushers and give them opportunity. Yes we do need CB but that should be addressed at the drafts, no need to go after other team free agents. We need to keep this defense intact and add more CB, safety and OL at the draft. Then we will be a dominant team in NFL. Remember we keep Yanda when he was in his prime.

I meant Ngata not Yanda here.

  41 minutes ago, leziRav said:

I agree, we have to sign Williams, if we can't sign him the offseason then we have to put a franchise tag on him. He is the best and he is in his prime so Ozzie will sign him. I know it is not time to talk about the offseason yet, we have to make the playoffs but the future is bright for a dominant Ravens in NFL. Once we sign Williams and Orr, then we can let Wangler walk away if his price is expensive, we have Alex Lewis who can play RT. Also we will have to spend some draft picks on OL anyway ( quality back up Center, guard, and tackle). I think our front 7 is the best, no need to spend draft picks there, our draft picks should go the secondary and OL. I wish we pick a first round CB and move T.Young to safety. I see him as a good ball hawk, play maker safety. I don't think so he will survive as outside CB with his size. We will see once the offseason come.

No way that happens, the current franchise tag for defensive tackles is $13.4 million. (and I'm sure that will go up a little for next year)  I love B-Will but doesn't make sense to overpay for an interior defensive lineman.  Ozzie and Co. are great at finding good to great interior defensive linemen.  At that price, I'd rather we let BWill go and use that money elsewhere (WR, CB, Pass rusher, etc.)

Defensive tackle: $13.4 million ($10.7 million)

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000636218/article/estimated-2016-franchise-tag-figures

We are good at WR and pass rusher, we just have to work with those young WRs and pass rushers and give them opportunity. Yes we do need CB but that should be addressed at the drafts, no need to go after other team free agents. We need to keep this defense intact and add more CB, safety and OL at the draft. Then we will be a dominant team in NFL. Remember we keep Yanda when he was in his prime.

  34 minutes ago, leziRav said:

  1 hour ago, RaRaRavens said:

Re-signing Williams should IMHO be as high of a priority as re-signing Flacco was after our SB run. From the top of my head, I cannot think of another defensive player who makes teammate around him look so good as B.Williams does.

Dolphins had to block him with 4 players at times. First, that allowed LBs to make pretty much open field tackles on RB at the freaking line of scrimmage! LBs are drooling over these opportunities. Second, it left pass rushers on one-on-one blocks coming from the edge. Guys like Suggs and Doom nearly never get opportunities like that otherwise. Lastly, thanks to the havoc wrecked by the front seven, defensive backfield had a blast defending the panic-passes QB was able to get off of his hand.

I’m pretty sure that without Williams, Orr would not look half as impressive starter as he currently does, Suggs and Doom would be overwhelmed by double teams they’d be getting, rest of the pass rush department would be invisible, and the DBs would be exposed and shredded like they have been for past couple of seasons without pressure up front.

So dear FO, can we please please please do EVERYTHING we can do keep Williams?? I envision our defense being in the TOP5 for many years to come with Williams behemothing up front alongside Jernigan, Pierce, Davis and out of the TOP10 without him.

I actually think I haven’t wanted anyone to be re-signed as badly as I want them to re-sign Williams. My Christmas wish right there.

I agree, we have to sign Williams, if we can't sign him the offseason then we have to put a franchise tag on him. He is the best and he is in his prime so Ozzie will sign him. I know it is not time to talk about the offseason yet, we have to make the playoffs but the future is bright for a dominant Ravens in NFL. Once we sign Williams and Orr, then we can let Wangler walk away if his price is expensive, we have Alex Lewis who can play RT. Also we will have to spend some draft picks on OL anyway ( quality back up Center, guard, and tackle). I think our front 7 is the best, no need to spend draft picks there, our draft picks should go the secondary and OL. I wish we pick a first round CB and move T.Young to safety. I see him as a good ball hawk, play maker safety. I don't think so he will survive as outside CB with his size. We will see once the offseason come.

Franchise tag is out of the question. For defensive lineman, it will be around $14M, and a NT who doesn't rush the passer isn't worth $14M. Regardless of how well he makes the rest of his teammates look, you'll never get an ROI on that type of money.

If he ends up getting Damon Harrison money ($9-10M a year), we probably have a decent shot at retaining him if we want to. If he goes for much higher than that, Pierce can play the NT and the drop off isn't worth nearly that price tag.

The key things to consider here is that we may very likely have to choose between Brandon Williams and Timmy Jernigan... its debatable whether we could afford both. Jernigan is much more of a pass rusher than Williams, and Pierce looks like a guy who could fill Williams spot more adequately than us replacing Jernigan.

Williams and Wagner are the top two guys we have decisions to make for next season, but keep in mind that Jernigan and Mosley are coming up for big deals as well. Mosley won't be as expensive as the others most likely, and we can pick up the 5th year option for him.

Basically, FO likely has to decide between Jernigan and Williams.

I agree but honestly I think we can have both, Williams is the best NT right and he is even better off field. We can franchise tagged him to keep him out of the free agent market like we did with Tucker then before deadline sign him. If not, I agree we have to let him walk. Also remimber we have Kaufusi, I believe he will be a good pass rusher DE. So we don't have really worry about Jernigan. I will take Williams over Jernigan.

Re-signing Williams should IMHO be as high of a priority as re-signing Flacco was after our SB run. From the top of my head, I cannot think of another defensive player who makes teammate around him look so good as B.Williams does.

Dolphins had to block him with 4 players at times. First, that allowed LBs to make pretty much open field tackles on RB at the freaking line of scrimmage! LBs are drooling over these opportunities. Second, it left pass rushers on one-on-one blocks coming from the edge. Guys like Suggs and Doom nearly never get opportunities like that otherwise. Lastly, thanks to the havoc wrecked by the front seven, defensive backfield had a blast defending the panic-passes QB was able to get off of his hand.

I’m pretty sure that without Williams, Orr would not look half as impressive starter as he currently does, Suggs and Doom would be overwhelmed by double teams they’d be getting, rest of the pass rush department would be invisible, and the DBs would be exposed and shredded like they have been for past couple of seasons without pressure up front.

So dear FO, can we please please please do EVERYTHING we can do keep Williams?? I envision our defense being in the TOP5 for many years to come with Williams behemothing up front alongside Jernigan, Pierce, Davis and out of the TOP10 without him.

I actually think I haven’t wanted anyone to be re-signed as badly as I want them to re-sign Williams. My Christmas wish right there.

I agree, we have to sign Williams, if we can't sign him the offseason then we have to put a franchise tag on him. He is the best and he is in his prime so Ozzie will sign him. I know it is not time to talk about the offseason yet, we have to make the playoffs but the future is bright for a dominant Ravens in NFL. Once we sign Williams and Orr, then we can let Wangler walk away if his price is expensive, we have Alex Lewis who can play RT. Also we will have to spend some draft picks on OL anyway ( quality back up Center, guard, and tackle). I think our front 7 is the best, no need to spend draft picks there, our draft picks should go the secondary and OL. I wish we pick a first round CB and move T.Young to safety. I see him as a good ball hawk, play maker safety. I don't think so he will survive as outside CB with his size. We will see once the offseason come.