ByTheBay

15 minutes ago, whobilly said:

Made GREAT in part by Joe. Never said he was the best QB in the league but Ravens Fans would have gone crazy if we let him walk.

No doubt about it. Every fan including myself would have lost it had they let Joe walk in 2013. However, I believe we would now be laughing at whoever picked him up much in the same way Houston looks like fools for signing and paying Osweiler. Hindsight is 20/20 and I'm not arguing that we shouldn't have signed him. Ozzie was put in a tough spot. Thats the past. My argument is in the now and if anything short of surrounding joe with stars at every position will ever make him worth his pay. The same pay which makes it impossible to put stars around him. See the problem?

1 minute ago, OriolesMagicPlease said:

How about crucial drops? There is a difference you know.

Every team has crucial drops too

17 minutes ago, jhulax35 said:

Really Flacco is the problem.. what about a lot dropped balls by the wr ... or do you think joe throws too hard like someone else on here.. Joe still needs get rid the ball quicker but the wr still need the separation.. did you see the separation the pats wr were getting against the steelers.. Actually let's keep talking about the pats game when Joe threw in double coverage and Wallace arms were wide open and it was int.. plus the wr need learn to look at joe when they lease get 5 yards especially if they are hot wr because I saw a lot balls not caught because of that. the right side of oline is not that good we rarely ever run the ball to the right and if we keep running left well that's pretty predictable.. The problem Joe try's force plays and gets in trouble but that's with any Qb .. 

Ravens were ranked #15 in the league in dropped passes. Right in the middle. Every team has dropped passes. 

28 minutes ago, Azzi22 said:

all you flacco bashers.... have absolutely no clue what youre talking about... I can easily say 15-20 teams WISH AND PRAYED TO GOD they can have someone Flacco under center...Just take a look at other ''better'' qbs... what have they done with the talent they have surrounding them? Dalton/aj..brees and whoever..Rodgers/jordy..luck and ty..Stafford/megatron..big ben Antonio... list goes on and on... CALM YOURSELVES DOWN.. guy has had 5 oc's in 5 years.. NO RB.. horrible WR(no one near a elite one) and u want him to do good?

It's great when an argument includes how stupid everyone that doesn't agree with you is 😀

But I will throw you a bone to make your case. Please go ahead and name 15-20 teams that would trade their starting QB for the 23rd best QB in Flacco. I can see about 5 or 6. Keep in mind that they will be taking him with his 3rd highest salary in the league. A number people keep saying will be dwarfed every year by new higher contracts but I'm not seeing it actually happen. 

I'm confused. The FO says we need to strengthen our Oline but I think our starting group of Stanley, Lewis, Yanda and Wagner is pretty darn good. So the problem must be our Pro Bowl center? (I know I am floored by that too) Then its our receivers who before the season we were told are the best group in Ravens history. But for some reason they cant get seperation and Joe needs clear separation to throw the ball otherwise he hesitates. Then its always the OC's fault. Terrible scheme and play calling. Yeah that must be it. I think we will look back in the 10 years and laugh at how many players and staff have been thrown under the bus to avoid admitting Joe Flacco is the problem. I know we are stuck with him and I dont have a solution to offer but it's starting to look like this may be the case. 10th season. Think about that for a minute. In what skills has he improved over the last decade? After 10 years of doing the same job most people become much, much better. Sorry for the rant, I am just finished making excuses for our QB. Every year it's someone elses fault he is not succeeding. Madness at the castle. 

1 hour ago, sami said:

maybe us viewers arent as smart as we think we are

It's not just the fans Sami. The whole front office from Biscotti to Newsome to Harbaugh all said the Oline needs an upgrade. If not Zuttah then who? I like what we have in Stanley, Lewis, Yanda and Wagner. Clearly we need better depth but depth is not what Biscotti said. He wants change. So if not Zuttah then who?

Its starting to look like our QB really is the problem. No matter the Oline or Receivers or OC. They all get thrown under the bus to save the front office from having to admit they have invested an enormous amount of money in a less than capable QB. I really hope as we all do that after another year from his injury Joe comes back next year better than ever. 

Well the game has been moved from Hawaii to Orlando. I guess Orlando is fine to take your kids to disney world but other than that.... Let's just say it's no Honolulu. Players dont want to go to there. Add in that its such a boring game nobody can stand to watch it and you get sub par players in a sub par game. Anybody here having a "pro bowl" party? Didn't think so 😀  It's a relic. Time to move on and leave it behind. 

2 hours ago, crazyboutravens said:

When is Steve going to start hiring all the geniuses on this website. These guys could get us to many, many super bowls.

While I don't like the pessimism either, this is a place for everyone's opinion and not just the ones that you agree with. It's important to listen to other people's views and not see the world through blinders. We have fallen short almost every year since the SB so something is wrong. Hopefully the FO has open eyes, ears and mind because the empty promises are starting to fall on deaf ears. 

You can see Steve and the other owners trying to grasp the concept of reduced viewership and are looking for that one answer. Unfortunately I think its a culmination of many factors that have brought us to this point.

1. Out of area cord cutters cant watch games over the air or online in real time. Especially the Thursday and Monday night games. You gladly pay $99 for game pass but watching at night or next day is not the same experience. 

2. Celebrations have always been a fun part of the game. The choreographed multiperson dances were the best. I agree if you dont like it keep the other team from scoring. A couple of overly sensitive fans complained the loadest and now we have flags being thrown for showing emotion? This is where the term snowflake has come from. Get over yourselves. 

3. The refs have had a hard time keeping the game evenly called. It's probably not their fault. Players are faster and technology is exposing the bad calls like never before. They are trying to keep the games integrity by not placing cameras everywhere but that is the eventual outcome so lets just do it. Embrace technology. Eventually there will be a chip in the ball so spotting it will be automatic. Signing all refs to an exclusive full time contract where they spend a minimum of 40 a week either training or calling a game would be a good start. How is this not already being done?

4. I've already commented on the commercials. They need to prioritize the game. Less commercial time leads to a reduction in supply which would allow the price per commercial to go up. The people in the corner offices need to stop trying to eack out every penny. They are killing the host. 

5. The younger generation is not as interested in Football or baseball. Most of the under 30 people that I know only like basketball. I think other sports may be too slow to keep their attention. 

6. The playing favorites has got to stop. It is turning fans off in a big way. Protect Cam Newton the way you do Tom Brady for crying out loud. That man gets abused for no reason and it's things like that that have to stop immediately. 

7. Some blame redzone. I don't think true football fans are giving up on watching a complete game just to see the highlights. Those are your "new" fantasy football fans who will leave the sport as soon as they grow bored with fantasy football. I'm not saying they aren't fans, I just don't think they are as personally invested as your typical face painting, throw parties, tailgate, cant wait til Sunday afternoon fans. 

8. This whole Roger Goodel idea of parity is creating boring games. I feel for some of the historically bad teams like the browns but for the most part the top dogs in the NFL transition from team to team over time. When I was growing up the patriots, seahalks, colts, bucs, chiefs, vikings, ect were all terrible. There is an ebb and flow to the league and it gave hope that one day your team might create their own dynasty. Now with more parity it makes it harder to pull away from the pack. 

9. The announcers have gotten noticeably worse. Maybe I am more of a madden/michaels type of guy but to hear simms disrespect SSS while he is playing the last game of a historical career and not publicly apologize the next day shows me they can say whatever they want as long as its not about the chosen few. They are representatives of the NFL and it really turned me off in a big way

10. I have to stop making this list and get back to work!

The networks overplayed their hands a little too. Over the past few years I've noticed an increase in commercials beings shown to their entirety only to come back to a game that has already restarted. Usually you don't miss much but a few times I can remember a big play being missed and having to see it on replay. They have gotten too full of themselves and have forgotten why we are all watching. They used to cut the commercial short all of the time when that situation arose. Not anymore. 

20 hours ago, birdseye said:

All good points, but remember, we were 2 inches away from being a playoff team this year. We don't need to fill every hole but upgrading the Oline is, imo, the key to turning this offense around (along with a commitment the run game). The defense is 1 good cornerback away from being a playoff defense. if the offense turns itself around I'm confident the ravens will be a playoff team in the weak AFC. Certainly shouldn't be impossible to land a starting CB and C between free agency and the draft.

Also, John says he wants to have the best of everything, just typical coach speak.

I continue to hear fans say that we were a few inches away from making the playoffs. No, no were not. We still would have needed to beat CIN in cincy to end the season and even if we had something to fight that would have been FAR from a given. So please, please just stop. We were all lucky to have an exciting second half of the season because at the bye it looked like we had 0 chance. The AFCN was terrible this year and it made it fun but by no means were we a playoff ready team

So take it with a grain of salt if you like but pff has the Ravens Oline ranked as 9th best in the league this year. So why is it that our fans, coaches and owner are constantly claiming we need to upgrade it so badly. If we retain Wagner, we only need to find a solid C and better depth. Is all of this negative attention just a way to shift blame from Flacco and the coaches? We all see that the line fell apart at times this season but that is pretty typical for all teams. Proof will be in the actions the FO takes. It is my belief that there will be minimal changes. i think we let Zuttah and Hurst go and bring in a new C either via draft or FA. Jensen is a good backup when running the ball so he stays. One developmental backup guy will be drafted after round 4 and a veteran backup type will be brought in through FA. So as you can see I am not sold on there being any drastic changes which would tell me there were other reasons for our issues this season. 

1 hour ago, bioLarzen said:

There are always teams with enough cap space to go well above the average for players they deem worthy enough. That, somehow, seems to happen a lot with UFA' leaving Baltimore... Ellerbe, Grubbs, Torrey Smith, Art Jones, McPhee... the list is long. Wagner may just be the next instalment.

I guess I didn't realize how well known and respected Wagner is around the league for that to be the case. Williams I can see being our next FA to get paid to leave but Wagner has been good not great. It's true that anything can happen in FA when an underperforming team with a ton of cap space gets involved. It would be a shame to lose Wagner. I am hoping the only change on our oline is C and more depth

Over 10m a year for Wagner at RT? What makes Rosenthal think he is worth so much when the league wide average is between 4-6m? I think Wagner gets around 24m for 4 years and stays with the Ravens. If that happens then it takes one more need off of our list and oz just needs to find a C and a mid round backup to groom. I think Williams fits the mold of a player that is as good as gone. He disappears for stretches of the season and while not as good as Williams, we do have Pierce to fill in. 80/20 rule applies. Again draft a mid round lineman to rotate and hope for the best.

13 minutes ago, ellicottraven said:

I wonder sometimes if Reed isn't coming to Baltimore because his relationship with Harbaugh isn't all that kosher. Especially the fact that Reed led the players revolt a few years ago to call out Harbaugh. Just saying...

I don't know, do you really think Ed controlled the locker room enough to "let" the players revolt. The way he publicly dealt with all of his contract negotiations I'm not sure he cared too much about keeping the peace. I'd have an easier time believing Ray held the team together when players had issues. 

48 minutes ago, The Mom Gene said:

I don't know if that was the case.  I just get sick of seeing that pocket collapse and people getting to Joe all the time.  When you don't see that happening with other teams....  It seems as though some of those guys have all day long.

Some of that can be attributed to our lack of a run game. Those other teams you speak of probably have a decent balance of run/pass and maybe even have a qb that can pick up a few yards on their own so defenses respect that. No one respected the Ravens play calling this season. Defensive coordinators knew the odds were in their favor to send more than 3 guys at Flacco. They knew that because of his knee and possibly coaching he chooses to go to the ground more often than scramble. Joe used to run like a damn stallion in his early years. I think the coaching staff or maybe his angent told him to stop running. I dont know. So while everyone talks about how bad our line was or how bad flacco played I think it really came down to stubborn Tressman and his refusal to make adjustments and run the ball even when behind. Those of us who have watched many many football games remember that often the greatest comebacks are a product of the losing team refusing to abandon the run. Just methodically sticking to the plan. Teams that panick and throw the ball 60 times rarely comeback. I hope Marty is a better play caller than Marc. Balance is the key. Whether it seems to be working or not

1 hour ago, The Mom Gene said:

WEDDLE:  $13M guaranteed for 4 years. $26 overall.

For 2016... Base was $1M; Signing Bonus @1.75M; and Roster Bonus of $1M....

 

WALLACE .....  two years and $11.5 million. The deal is really for one year and $5.75 million with an option for another season worth $5.75 million. 

Wallace got $4.5 million signing bonus to sign in Baltimore with a $1 million bonus due in March of 2017.

Problem is people want us to bring in good players, then they don't think they deserve to get paid.... I'm not thinking this guy was overpaid this year.... Not for all the leadership he brings to this team. $3.75M? I think he's worth every penny.

I'm not great with understanding how bonuses affect the cap. $26m - 3.75 = $22.25 for the next 3 years w/ a 7.41m average or because $13m is guaranteed, if he were let go after next season we would be paying him 9.25m next year?. Weddle is making on average 2m more a season than Webb who everyone seems to think is always overpaid no matter how many times he restructures his deal. Seems high to me for 2 players in the late stages of their careers. I love having Weddle on our squad though and think he made a huge impact on our secondary. I just dont want to be having the conversation about his cap hit this time next year. Also, I dont fault him for dropping a few interceptions. If DB's had good hands they would have become receivers. He was under appreciated at the end in SD so I dont want to make the same mistake. 

2 hours ago, zing21042 said:

The whole discussion on "draft whiffs" is rather short sighted. Think about it. Not including undrafted free agents ( 436 players), each year there is an absolute minimum of 224 rookies drafted (actually 253 in 2016). Given a 53 man roster and 32 teams there are collectively 1696 players on the active rosters.

Strictly by the numbers, over a period of 3 years (just enough time for a decent rookie to become a good/outstanding player or be deemed a "bust"), collectively the NFL teams have drafted 45% of the total number of players in all of national football (again not including the 1300 UDFA). That should say something. "According to the NFL Players Association the average career length is about 3.3 years. The NFL claims that the average career is about 6 years." Either way it suggests that most of the new draftees suck when they get to pro ball. It also suggests that picking the right players is just as much a crap shoot as it is experience.

The median age of members of the NFL (based on team) is 26.16 yrs old. Assuming players graduate at 22 yrs of age...it all fits. Most younger players don't last long; not from injury but because they suck.
 

This. This should be saved and used as the end all be all argument to anyone complaining about ozzies draft record. I have been too lazy to do the research for myself and here you have it. The majority of draft picks including high draft picks don't live up to expectations. Fans want results and don't always see the big picture. Thank you 

3 hours ago, whobilly said:

So Ryan Fitzpatrick or EJ Manuel will get us over the hump? Or better yet Rivers or Matt Ryan because they've accomplished SO much in the post season.

3 hours ago, metalraven said:

who said anything about those guys? and you can't bring up the post season - we haven't been there lately.

I know, why do some fans insist on going to extremes as their only argument? When will they learn that when someone suggests that Flacco is not doing what he is paid to do, the response has to be better than "oh so you'd rather have Mark Sanchez?" Or Andy Dalton can't win a playoff game. Same sorry response comes in defending Harbaugh, who I like by the way but its not like there are no replacements for him. The hard part for some to understand is that unlike QB's, there are many unknown canadates out there. Of course extensive football experience is needed to be a head coach but I think the main focus is their ability to deligate and motivates. You dont need to be restricted to the OC/DC/HC carousel to find that. 

1 hour ago, sp3ctor said:

I'm so glad the trolls on this board are not any of the following people: this team's owner, this team's GM, this team's President, or any other position of authority within the organization. Steve Bisciotti is a self-made BILLIONAIRE, CEO, philanthropist, and entrepreneur. He knows how to run a business. It isn't coincidence that two superbowls have come to Baltimore since he took over as owner. He's steady, calm, cool, and collected. He isn't going to make rash decisions based off of small sample sizes. Joe had a down year, but not when his offensive line held up. Harbs made a few bad calls this year as HC, but ultimately had his medicre, unbalanced lineup poised to take out the second, or possibly best, AFC team this year on Christmas day, Ozzie missed on some top picks, yet his gems in the later rounds, including multiple starters. The fact is that this team is fine and would benefit from a season of continuity. We are one offensive weapon away from being a powerhouse offense and if Mornhinweg can get back to the simplified West Coast offense Kubes installed in 2014, we will be a force next season. Think about it: Kubes offense WITH legit burners means Flacco moves on from the check-downs. But honestly most important factor I really hope the critics keep in mind this off season: one season is not a sufficient sample size to tell what you do or do not have. Scientists don't run two or three experiments and declare it 100% proven. They run hundreds of tests and weigh all options that might prove their hypothesis wrong. The simple fact is that all of the people criticizing the main pieces of this organization always point to one or two things and try and pass it off as "fact" The only fact I see here is that this organization is a great position to compete with the Steelers next season for AFC North supremacy and that's all we can hope for at this point, because last I checked, had we made the playoffs, with the absolute garbage competition during the Wild Card Weekend, we could have made a splash. The critics would have fizzled out had that happened. We were 8 inches away from that. Remember how close we came and come talk to me next year if we've regressed.

Couple of things...

Biscotti bought the Ravens in 2004. We won our first SB in 2000. We were the greatest defense of all time and owned by the late Art Model. 

Joe has had down years in 3 of the last 4. 

Yes we played Pit hard. We always do. We beat them last year with Ryan Mallett at QB. The Browns play us hard. It's part of being so familiar with each other and not a sign of how good we may or may not be. 

We are the same team going into the offseason minus our #1 receiver SSS. We are more than a single offensive weapon from being a powerhouse. That would only bring us back to where we already were last year. 

Marty will not be bringing in Kubiaks system. He will have Marty's system. We will have to wait to see what that is but dont expect miracles. Kubiak was great while it lasted but now it's gone. Marty also doesn't seem to like the run and I dont see how that will change next year. 

One season sample size? Flacco is going into his 10th season. How much more time do we need to figure it out? I have always supported Joe because he USED to be January Joe and that was exciting. I also thought it was better than being one of the miserable teams looking for their franchise guy but after seeing his numbers sit at the bottom of the league I may be kidding myself. Statistically it couldn't be much worse. Because of his extention we are stuck with him for the time being. 

2 hours ago, ellicottraven said:

You make a compelling argument but I am going to give it this year anyway because whet choice do any of us really have? I like the idea of 'hope'. It is a powerful emotion!

I am with you. I have hope every season. I have given up on Flacco improving but fully believe the team will improve every year. They will just have to find a way despite having joe as their QB. Denver did it with a noodle armed manning so anything is possible. I mean isnt that why we are all fans? To believe that your team could go all the way every year. I don't know how Browns fans do it but respect the hell out of them for somehow always believing. 

35 minutes ago, ellicottraven said:

I think Flacco is at his final benefit of the doubt stage with his injury (one must admit it was multiple ligaments he tore up) because it does take a full year to recover from it. So, he can be legitimately excused. But, going into his 9th year, I don't think he has any cards left for two simple reasons. Now everybody's onus is on him - the realistic fans, Bisciotti, Ozzie and even Harbaugh and two he wanted Marty and must live with Marty's system and play calling however good or bad it becomes.

Another season like 2016, nobody can come to his defense because all the excuses legitimate or otherwise have run their course and he alone shall bear the burden. I don't honestly know what to expect from Joe, because he's just so inconsistent and unpredictable. He can go on a rut for 5-6 games or go on a tear for 5-6 games. Fortunately for us, his tear came at the appropriate time in 2012.

As a fan, I just want to know what I'm getting from my QB, good or bad. The frustrating part is with Joe, I'm not confident we win any game even though we win our share of them. He just doesn't inspire confidence basically because of his inconsistency. I don't know if he inspires confidence in the players and team even though they may say (for the cameras) that he does.

I used to be like you. I always defended Flacco with all the typical excuses and said that NEXT year he would make that leap and excel. This year I realized this was his 9th season. Thats 9 years as a professional football player. If he isnt doing something now, it's doubtful he will magically do it next year. Unfortunately I believe Joe Flacco will be remembered as the QB of the Baltimore Ravens when we won our second SB and that is all. He will always be remembered for that amazing playoff run. I mean he helped to go through the colts at home, Denver in Mile High in sub zero temps, NE in Foxborough in January and San Fran in the superbowl with the crazy momentum killing power outage. He will always have that and it was truely a great memory for all of us. I thank him for that but doubt anything will change next season. After the SB he seems content with what he has become. It's like he worked so hard to achieve his lifetime goal and then was done. 

56 minutes ago, sami said:

this year he had TWO big game receivers. SSS and Wallace not to mention under used Kamar. The receivers aren't his problem. The problem is #1 the system and schemes and routes #2. the offensive line, #3. SSS hit it on the head when he said Joe has had too many OC's. its like learning a new language every year. How can you be comfortable and play up to your potential with that?

Not even close. I would trade SSS AND Wallace for Antonio Brown. You cant and shouldn't put them in the same level. Brown is so good he demands double teams while our 2 top receivers do not. This creates mismatches and allows other receivers to get open. In our first game with pit we locked down brown and no one else was able to find separation. It worked once and then they made adjustments in the following games and guys stepped up. And Aiken was not used very often because he didn't perform when given then chance. He may have been a one year wonder and may not be back next season. 

Also I would never compare Joe to Manning but Petyon changed teams and systems twice in 4 years and Set records, 2 SB appearances and a SB win in denver. So yeah it's Peyton manning but it shows the qb is more than just the system they are in. 

18 minutes ago, cookiedood said:

As a life long Raven fan who lives in South Carolina, I don't have the option of saying things like I will cancel my season tickets, or I will never pay another penny to attend a Raven game, but I do have the option of dropping Direct TV's Sunday ticket, and that is precisely what I intend to do. It is apparent to the entire football viewing world that Harbaugh is only going to hire his good buddies as coaches, and hope that they will somehow pull a rabbit out of their butt and all of a sudden become good coordinators. Anyone that watches Raven games can see the problem for what it is. The offensive line is one of the weakest in the NFL, and not only do they not pass protect, but they are unable to create holes for the RB's. Flacco has about as much leadership ability as Elmer Fudd. He does nothing to inspire his team mates, and just does not have that fire in the belly that all great Quarterbacks possess. Defensively, there is not a team in the NFL that fears playing them. If the little sisters of the poor had a football team with a QB that could deliver deliver passes, they would salivate over the chance to play against this secondary. Pass rush, what pass rush? And Harbaughs answer is to keep his buddies employed, give me a break. Good luck Raven fans, I'm done.

Sorry to see you go. Many may not realize that large swaths of SC is infested with Steelers fans and Steelers bars. I thank you for representing in that hostile environment. It's one thing to wear your purple gear and display your pride in Baltimore but not many can relate to the pride and tenacity you need to do that when others around you don't agree. Thank you

11 minutes ago, The Mom Gene said:

And here we go....  When for the past 3 years we've been saying that the OC's were way too conservative...  a more aggressive OC starts calling plays and we still hear that it's too "vanilla".   Nobody's ever happy.  The team will never make everyone happy.

I'm not sure what you are calling aggressive but Joe's average of 6.4 yards per attempt are tied for his career low with 2013. The year we purged our roster. Aggressive it is not