PurpleHorseman

This draft is going to eventually be recognized as overrated

27 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

I've cooled on Harris as well. 

Also I've cooled on tj watt due to the injuries

You cooled on Watt??  If he is injury free would you be as hot? Harris I'm lukewarm to like Barnett. He may be a very good edge rusher in a 3-4 but I would never want him round1. Round 1 I like Tim Williams and maybe Carl Lawson. Williams is the best speed rushing edge bender. Everything else can be learned. He has skills that can't be taught. He is the closest thing to Vic Beasley Von Miller in the draft. It may sound like I totally dislike Barnett/Harris. But really it is I wouldn't want Barnett/Harris with Williams left on the board.

Dalvin Cook. I like him but not as much. I don't think he is a big upgrade over Dixon.  On a side note many don't realize how great Dixon could be. The runner the Cowboys took was thought by scouts to be the better player. Almost as shifty as Dixon but a bigger tougher runner. When in fact Dixon has proven to be a tougher stronger runner with all his elusiveness. When the offensive line wasn't playing well. Dixon is bigger than many think at nearly 220. He was breaking a lot of tackles when the offensive line wasn't playing to well

Back on topic. Dalvin wasn't my favorite pick. But I was on board with it if ravens drafted him at No.16. As much as I bash Barnett. I tried talking myself into liking him. Because of his intensity and love for the game. As well as his pride. If only he got a little better jump off the line and accelerated off blocks with more burst. But I wasn't ever quite convinced he should be the pick like Cook

3 minutes ago, hn68wb4 said:

Objectively entirely untrue on every point here. Collins started the season terribly, anyone that actually watched the Cowboys - as I did because by brother is a Cowboys fan - will tell you that. And no one was saying any of this about Upshaw, in fact he is the exact antithesis of every argument you've made. He was a bull rusher first and foremost without any other EDGE traits and lacked fluidity. You literally just said Barnett has no strength and all he has is technique as a pass rusher, or else he would never get home as he lacks game breaking athleticism.

Not at all. I said the strength he shows will not show up in the NFL. Why are so many offended I don't like Barnett. He could be solid. But in my opinion not the feared game wrecker ravens need. And I never said his skills were the exact of Upshaws. It is however reminiscent of the epic arguments over his game transferring to the NFL.

3 minutes ago, hn68wb4 said:

As a fan of App State, that's an entirely irrelevant game to bring up, App St runs an option offense, we pass only a handful of times per game and when we do it's quick dump offs and stuff like that. Hardly a game that means anything about him as a pass rusher, hard to net sacks when there is no opportunity to do it anyway.

And you've been arguing in favor of Collins on this sub since your mock, you're the one that brought him up here, clearly you were just continuing to push, otherwise there would be no reason to bring him up.

Nope, wasn't pushing Collins. I'm over that. I mean ravens never trade early picks for players so even if he becomes all pro what is the point of rooting for him. It won't be as a raven. It was to push my opinion of Barnett. I don't like him at all. I like Tim Williams. Somebody who has room to grow and add technique. And can jump into the backfield in a blink. Putting tackles on their heels in compromising positions.

3 minutes ago, hn68wb4 said:

"Exceptionally well against college tackles." As opposed to every other EDGE player in the draft, guess that means they're all busts, right?

"So him being dominated by Collins is very relevant." Actually it's entirely irrelevant because it never happened. Which pretty much makes everything you said here about the two completely meaningless, because you simply made up what you keep asserting. They've never faced each other.

"So Collin was benched for Leary? it was an injury." right, and when he was healthy he didn't re-enter the lineup. Mainly because he was absolutely terrible to start the season and the line improved while he was gone. Once he was healthy he kept his butt on the bench. And again, never dominated Barnett.

And I suppose I'll just highlight the entire last paragraph because it's garbage from start to finish. 1) They never played each other, 2) Really, gonna call Barnett a "slug?" what are you? 12. 3) Collins isn't worth a first rounder straight up, probably not even a second because he's objectively shown jack in the NFL. Constantly injured and when he's on the field he throws out a highlight reel block every once in a while, but that's about it, no consistency has ever creeped into his game.

Collins wasn't terrible even when playing injured. He wasn't ready to play until January. In which case he wasn't going to replace anybody playing at a pro bowl level anyways. Barnett is great in college. But I believe he will be a slug in the NFL. These same arguments went on when Upshaw showed up.

11 minutes ago, hn68wb4 said:

Tennessee never played LSU while the two were in college. Sorry, I didn't think what I wrote was complicated.

Are you sure. I thought the 2 teams played in early December 2014?? In which case Collins only allowed 1 sack which wasn't against Tennessee. Regardless my point wasn't to prop Collins. It was about Barnett's struggles and how I think it will translate to the NFL. Like Appalachian State.

21 minutes ago, hn68wb4 said:

lol, hold the phone, just looked it up, in Barnett's entire career Tennessee has never even faced LSU, in other words this dude just made up Collins dominating Barnett, freshman or not. Last time the two teams faced each other was 2011. Get out of here dude.

If Collins only allowed 1 sack that year and it wasn't against Tennessee. Then that would mean Barnett got nothing on Collins

33 minutes ago, hn68wb4 said:

"But it is fine to push Barnett?? Cuz you think he is going to be a raven." based on? last I checked I've made 4 or 5 mocks this year, not a single has had Barnett as our pick. As already shown, you comparing a freshman Barnett vs. senior Collins is beyond laughable by itself, 18 year old kid isn't ready to take on a 22 year old player with experience, who'da thunk it? Honestly if you don't understand how that is a ridiculous 1 on 1 to go with then you're beyond help. If the highlight of your love of Collins stems from shutting down an 18 year old kid in college then you've got some issues, lets look at Collins at the NFL level - injury prone and supremely inconsistent, so much so that he got benched for Leary last year; I know that doesn't mesh with your "when he was on the field he was graded as the top guard in the league" narrative, but you have yet to provide any source on that and actually watching him couldn't have led you to that conclusion because he certainly didn't play like a top guard to start last year by any measure.

"Barnett doesn't have the burst to put NFL tackles in submissive vulnerable positions." disagree and tape says otherwise. He consistently shows plenty of burst. His get off on the snap isn't the greatest granted, but that's not the same as burst - which he has clearly on tape.

"He isn't going to overpower NFL tackles." Point being? that's not every EDGE player's game. Few rookies are able to do that regardless, NFL level strength and conditioning is a beautiful thing and Barnett has shown more than enough strength to set the edge against the run and that's all that matters early in his career. Putting together a proper bull rush is much more dependent on technique and leverage than brute strength.

"His technique and hand usage isn't going to work against coached up NFL tackles with pro level technique. Not to mention stronger arms and hands." You're literally making things up at this point, have you ever even watched him before?, technique and hand usage is what Barnett does exceptionally well.

Exceptionally well against college tackles. A players age doesn't mean jack. It is maturity. Some are 90% developed at 19 while some grow until 22. I grew to about almost 23. That is my point about overpowering NFL tackles. His technique isn't going to be light years ahead of his opponents in the NFL. Without plus power and even technique he isn't going to bullrush many NFL tackles. He was 250lbs as a freshman. It isn't like he grew much bigger. So him being dominated by Collins is very relevant.  

Now if he was a growing freshman and 230 lbs at time your argument would have credibility. Some players mature and hit their max size or near it a younger age. You are beyond help if all you consider is age when considering their matchup. And attempt to disregard it. I'll lay you out an example. Mike Tyson won heavyweight championship at 19 because he hit his body maturity faster than most do. Same with Barnett. He hit his max size or very close to it at 19 yrs old. Look at Barnett as a freshman.Is he much different?

So Collins was benched for Leary? It was an injury. If it were true that is bad news for your boy Barnett. Dominated on the edge by a guard that was benched. lol. BTW dude if he was benched at guard for Leary that is no disgrace. Leary is awesome. I wanted ravens to sign him. He will eventually be a pro bowl guard. He only can't play Tackle like Collins. I would be about as happy with Leary as Collins.

My opinion of Collins has little to do with dominating a slug like Barnett. Only reason he isn't in your mocks is because you think he is already drafted by 16.  But you are correct about one thing. I probably wouldn't trade a round1 for Collins and a 3. It would have to be A round1 for Collins and a round2. Only because of the injury thing. Enamored with Collins physical gifts and massive potential. I didn't really put enough stock in his injuries. But his potential is same.

Players with a high roof. The traits and work ethic to be great. Players should Love to play the game and want to be great. Scratch and claw their way to be the best. As well as hatred of losing. players that are the biggest sore losers in all of pro sports are ideal

12 hours ago, Ravenskid52752 said:

So your gonna judge his play against a senior tackle when he was a freshman!?really lol good one

So it's ok to praise his 10 sacks as a freshman. But disregard when he was dominated? Barnett fronted pro ready technique and moves as s freshman. So when he wins against very raw lineman you will highlight that in a blink when proclaiming your love for Barnett. Lineman that will learn proper technique and get  far better in the NFL. But when he is dominated it should be disregarded?

Allow me to ask. Has Barnett got any bigger, stronger, more explosive from 2 yrs ago? Has Barnett's technique and rush moves progressed all that much??! No, it hasn't!! His technique was always pro ready. He was always leaps and bounds ahead of most offensive lineman. That will not be the case in the NFL. Everybody likes to talk about him beating Cam Robinson. Although no coach in his right mind would start him at left or right tackle as a rookie.

12 hours ago, hn68wb4 said:

don't waste your breathe. Kelly didn't blow up his pro day so now we're going to have to hear him push Collins non-stop, regardless f how ridiculous his praise is.

But it is fine to push Barnett?? Cuz you think he is going to be a raven. The idea wasn't to push Collins. It was to show how useless Barnett is playing an NFL ready tackle. If Collins isn't that good. What could Barnett. bring to the game to  worry good NFL tackles? Barnett doesn't have the burst to put NFL tackles in submissive vulnerable positions. He isn't going to overpower NFL tackles. His technique and hand usage isn't going to work against coached up NFL tackles with pro level technique. Not to mention stronger arms and hands. 

55 minutes ago, LosT_in_TranSlatioN said:

Well. Given that the forum is shutting down....
I don't care if you are of the opinion of "you're making too many mocks. You need to stop. Devote your time and energy elsewhere. Make another mock "draft telking lyke diz. Et wuz funne" ".

 

Well screw you, I am making one this week, next week, and draft week just to spite you! And then I'm making one the week after that! Why? Because we are going under anyway. Why the hell should I care?

 

 

 

Here we go.

 

Round One: Corey Davis, WR

 

*As soon as we draft him. Joe Flacco goes down on his knees in the war room and starts kissing Ozzie's feet.*

Joe: "Finally. I have a guy I can build with. Why have you neglected me for so long?"

I love Perriman, and I think Joe and Wallace have great chemsitry. But we have the chance to draft a polished guy who can come in immediately and be a #1 WR. He's a good route runner, and smooth. He'd be a hell of a compliment to Perriman, and a red zone threat. Oh, and like Perriman he's good at jump balls. It's about damn time we catch up with the rest of the AFC north. 

 

Round Two: Tim Williams, OLB

I'd be happy with either Alabama OLB. Williams is the better pass rusher between the two and I think he could have an immediate impact here as an edge player. I have a feeling that Ozzie would be a little more lenient with an Alabama player. 

 

Round Three: Pat Elflein, C

See literally almost all of my mock drafts. I think with us trading Jernigan(the dumbest move of the offseason by far), we could compensate by finding a future center. Elflein would help our offensive line find an identity. He's nasty, but has some clear-cut issues. However, these issues are coachable, and some of them resulted from unconventional playcalling(credit to @-Truth- for pointing this out to me) that honestly set him up for failure at times. 

 

Round Three pt 2: Jake Butt, TE

Spoiler alert: Jake Butt will be in every single one of my mocks. 

 

Round Four: Cameron Sutton, CB

 

Round 5: Conor McDermott, OT

 

"Bigger and Stronger Offensive line". 

Well, at 6'9, McDermott covers the bigger part.

Let's finally get rid of Hurst shall we? McDermott is NOT a LT at the pro level. But with proper coaching and conditioning he could turn into a very intimidating RT. Which is something we need. He's a much better run blocker than pass blocker and was the only good player on UCLA's oline last season. Overall, even in the piss poor oline class, I feel that McDermott has potential to be a starting RT at the NFL level. Worst case scenario is that we sign a stop-gap like Dunlap and develop McDermott who could be a backup swing tackle. 

 

Round 6: Ezra Robinson, CB

Another CB. Because we seem obsessed with adding some depth there

 

 

Anyway, that's my mock. You'll be getting another one sometime next week, and then on draft day.

 

And then after draft day.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Fireworks go off and a draft to celebrate. I think we have a winner

Derek Barnett is going to look like a kangaroo trying to get off blocks of NFL tackles. Everybody talks about this Cam Robinson tape. A coach in the NFL would have to be drunk to play Cam at Tackle as a rookie. After couple years of coaching then maybe Cam could play Tackle. Then you would see. Not often rookie tackles are ready to play. See Barnett vs Lael Collins. And that is what you are getting when he plays NFL.

Derek Barnett. Could be a solid player. But he doesn't bring anything that threatens NFL tackles. And if we go defense it has to be a game changer. Many of sec players thought their numbers remain the same in NFL. Because it is the SEC. Only to learn the SEC isn't the NFL. Jonathan Allen and Derek Barnett are about to learn that themselves. As is who ever drafts.

17 hours ago, Chuckx999 said:

I would still move up and go for TE Howard, to help our poor offense, but if Ozzie is going all defense ( free agents and draft ) this year this guy could be good.

When Barnett struggles with NFL tackles. Nobody complains

Here's the thing with Barnett's 40 time. It was what everybody thought he would run. 4.8-5.0 range. It's not like Suggs at all where his 4.80 shocked everybody. He is thought of as a try hard who happens to have pro level technique where his technique is light years ahead. Even then it is not like he is one of those edge rushers that can jump in the backfield in a blink when a big play is needed. He worked and worked and set up lineman for an eventual sack opportunity. And won with pro level technique against tackles that have a lot to learn before starting in the NFL. If he is the player everybody wants he will be Available at pick 16. Teams want defensive players with game changer traits  in top15 picks.

Cool Cool, like Foster a lot in round 1. I would prefer  Phillips/smooth to Willis. I'm not sure if Moton is there in round3.If so,cool.

21 hours ago, Halshayeji said:

I really like Maclin as a player and think he's a better overall WR than Wallace considering that he catches passes from A.Smith. It would definitely be an intriguing move if Ozzie pulls it off but I don't think he's as fast as Wallace and I highly doubt our FO picking up his contract. He'd cost around 10 mil a year and that may be a bit over our budget

Maybe, but good thing about trading for a player his former team is usually on the hook for part of his salary. So Maclin should be within our range. He is only 28 and known for speed and route precision. However he has become very physical and agressive attacking the throw with defensive backs hanging on him and closing in on him. He has some Boldin and Garçon to go with his speed and precise routes. plays like a raven

9 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

Damn....good ole espn

He looks taller than that. Isn't he measured at pro day??

15 minutes ago, Sami84 said:

Think i've already done that. What else is there to say? Either Ozzie and Eric created a smokescreen or they genuinly don't rank davis as high as M.Williams or Ross who they also amped up during the pres conference.

Like I said as long as we avoid Taco Charlton ( nothing more than a michael Johnson) Jabrill Peppers( Matt elam 2.0) Cam Robinson ( Michael Oher on a bad day) and Charles Harris ( Sergio Kindle 2.0 whom I never rated anyway) we'll be ok.

Peppers will be good once he settles in at safety. Cam I want to like because I prioritize the offensive line. But he isn't the sum of all his parts. His issues aren't as bad as Greg Robinson. But he has work to do to catch up to his projections.

6 minutes ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

It definitely could be a stretch... but i wont be surprised if teams take a pass on him. Doubtful, but i wouldnt be completely shocked if someone took Ryan Anderson before Williams.

I could see any or all of Myles Garret, Solomon Thomas, Derek Barnett, Haason Reddick, Takk McKinley, Taco Charlton, Charles Harris, TJ Watt, Carl Lawson, Jordan Willis, Derek Rivers, Demarcus Walker, and Tyus Bowser going before him.

10 of them arent even really much of a stretch, and the last 3 have been evaluated all over the place. With the combo of the drug/gun arrest, failed tests, limited role, slightly undersized in that he's prob only a fit for 3-4 teams that need an edge rusher.... I dont think its all that crazy. 

Could he go before? Sure. I wouldnt blink at him going in the 1st round.... i wouldnt mind us taking him at 16. 

 

Especially within the context of my mock, i think he's there at 15 in the 2nd. I have 7 guys going in the 1st, and of the teams that pick before us in the 2nd there arent many that need a pass rusher that didnt get 1 in the 1st.  I could see maybe 3-4 that could but there are also really good prospects at other positions still on the board.

It's not completely crazy that a team goes with Lawson, Harris and/or Willis over Tim Williams.

All those players could go before Williams. However in a league where getting to the QB is widely recognized as the best way to slow an offense. It is quite a stretch that the best speed rusher in the class outside Garrett sits on the board that long. When I say best I'm referring best jump,explosion and bend. Which isn't far off from the Bronco racehorse Miller. He can grow into his young frame and play at about 255lbs . He has the raw skills to become very good in coverage and th run. He should be our best speed rusher since Boulware. And he should be the ravens pick outside a top 5 freefalling like Howard,Foster, Davis/Williams on the board. Even then it would be a tough decision deciding Williams and Davis Howard and Williams

A losing record would cause Biscotti to question management's direction 

28 minutes ago, Ravensfansince03 said:

Main thing Ozzie & crew NEEDS to think about... who's the next best/similar guy if Davis is snagged before we pick.

Next best player at a position is what causes problems drafting. Often next best player is difference between pro bowler and a very mediocre player. I really like JuJu and Stewart. But can we honestly say those receivers are one notch below Corey Davis. Corey has the makeup of a true No 1 receiver that has eluded the ravens.

10 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Dead serious. 

On paper they have a top 3 OL. They have a great HC. A gm who has been killing it. A ton of high picks in the coming years. And cap space. That OL and the space/currency to add stars will go a long way. Trubisky has pro tools, and putting him behind that line AND fournette behind that line... trubisky will only throw when he has to, at which point he's got barnidge and Coco against a stacked box with time to throw. 

Thats a hell of a foundation for a rebuild and you're flat out in denial if you don't believe so lol

Totally agree. This isn't the same browns gm and management. When fans rooted for losing to get a top2 pick to reload talent. We are seeing the reason. Cleveland and team with No.2 pick got a boatload of picks to invest in their future. Fans are lying to themselves if it doesn't believe the Browns are in a great position. Cleveland can trade No.12 pick for Garappolo and yet have the No. pick in the draft.Garrett and Jamie Collins are explosive players to build around with  like 4 round2 picks.

Their offensive line is behind the Cowboys and raiders.  That defense is going to be young ,fast and aggressive. And have an abundance of picks to build up their secondary. 

55 minutes ago, RavensDieHard21 said:

I don't like to count my chickens before they hatch, but the potential is there. I wouldn't see this happening until at least the 2018 season. Their defense is atrocious still and Coleman and Barnidge are not overly solid security blankets which Trubisky would need. He is still way too raw. I'd take Watson over him, but that is irrelevant. 

6 hours ago, usmccharles said:

Bronson is the guy who im most excited for.  Freakish athlete, just want to see him in action.