nj_ravens

Apologies for being long winded.

Now frustration is starting to kick in. I'm almost always an optimist regarding the ravens as I have a lot of faith in our front office, but the status quo wasn't CLOSE to being good enough this year, so lets keep the same?

Sadly, Joe is completely oblivious to his own shortcomings (and the offenses as a whole for that matter)... Its honestly insulting that he thinks the Raven's Flock is THAT stupid to accept such an answer; that situations dictated abandoning the run game all year leading to the skewed stats. News Flash, ravens fans know football and were tired of hearing the same crap out of your mouth when the games that we are watching with our own eyes don't support your comments? All Joe wants is to have the stats so that the sports world will finally call him an elite quarterback. his answer to the play call that almost cost us the Philly game is as close to admittance as you'll ever see when using coach/player speak.

My eternal optimist side is saying that perhaps Morningwheg was handicapped by Trestman's flawed offense and had no choice but to tailor his game-plan accordingly, but his history as an OC suggests otherwise. If we do not have a hammering run game next year, complimented by play action and explosive plays, Harbs gets the door. Much less optimism after listening to his press conference this morning.

"but the status quo wasn't CLOSE to being good enough this year, so lets keep the same"

Did we forget that Marty wasn't the OC at the beginning of the year? News Flash, he's not. We made an in season change. That is "not accepting the status quo" that is making a change. And how can you really judge Marty's performance as an OC if he isn't running HIS offense? He made do, and we almost won the division.

and no, Joe doesn't want the stats. They wanted to put the game out of reach. The quote you are referring to, Joe was RIGHT. Marty WAS "giving him one" Joe just made the wrong read. WALLER WAS WIDE OPEN for a TD. Marty read the defense and called a perfect play to score right then. I think we should run more, and should have run there, but your logic behind that throw is just wrong.

One could argue that Flacco just padded his stats this season. Mr. Check Down. Unreal how many check downs he did this season. Has speed on the outside. Had Steve over the middle. Pathetic.

For a lot of games, the offensive line was a mess so Joe was trying to get rid of the ball quickly. This was part of the original trestman strategy. Other games, defenses were taking away the mid and deep routes. You should be mad we weren't running the ball more, not that Joe was throwing to the person who was open.

Here is what Mary considers his worse call. "His most notable moment as a head coach came during a 2002 game against the Chicago Bears. The game went into overtime, and the Lions won the ensuing coin toss. However, Mornhinweg felt that having the wind in his favor was more important than getting the ball, despite having Jason Hanson (who hit a then-NCAA record 62-yard field goal in his college days at Washington State University) as his kicker. He elected to kick, rather than receive. As it turned out, the Lions never got the ball; on the Bears' opening drive, Chicago scored a field goal to win the game" Yea this guy is real bright.

is he the head coach?...no?...So what's the issue?

I'm fine with keeping Marty (for now). I was also fine with keeping Trestman at the end of last season, and I believe now that this was not the correct thing to do. So who knows. But I'm mystified about why we would keep Pees. His defense really let us down in the home stretch of this season. After Week 10, this team was in first place and had a winning record, one game up on the Steelers with the tie-breaker in hand so far. The defense was the reason for the early success, yes. Through 10 weeks, they were tied for 3rd in points allowed and #1 in yards allowed per game.

So this was when we needed the team to kick into gear and do some damage and claim our division title.

But from week 11 to the end of the season, the defense ranked tied for 17th in points allowed and all the way down at 28th (!!!!) in yards allowed per game.

Meanwhile the offense had improved from tied for 24th in points scored during the first 10 weeks to 13th during the span of the final 7 weeks. And from 25th in yards to 11th in yards. Flacco's QB Rating was over 90 from week 11 to the end of the year, despite an absurd quantity of plays where his receivers let him down leading to incompletions (many that would have been touchdowns) or interceptions that should not have occurred. He wasn't perfect! It's sad that I have to make that caveat, because some folks here will say "But what about that interception at the end of the Philly game!" OK. He had an ugly play there, that's for damn sure. Point me in the direction of the QB who didn't have a single ugly play over that span of 7 weeks?

OK, so perhaps the answer is Aaron Rodgers, haha. That's the only one I can think of that MIGHT qualify. And even for him, the best in the game, it's still an eyepopping fact that we might consider him to have been flawless over the past 7 weeks. So it doesn't matter that Flacco wasn't literally perfect. If you require that of your QB in order to win games, then your team needs some work in a lot of areas, just as this team does. Flacco was good, making lots of plays, but it wasn't always easy situations presented for him on the field in those weeks but was still overall putting up better personal numbers, and the offense along with him better numbers, while the defense collapsed.

I'm very upset that Dean Pees is still here.

THank you. Bumping this because everyone needs to read it. I get the frustration but everyone is freaking out unnecessarily.

This is really just speculation because I can't see the entire play, but I think Brown was triple teamed on that play because there was no route in the flats (RB most likely stayed into block) so Orr was able to drop into coverage. I am pretty sure that if the running back ran a route on that side of the field that Orr would have been responsible for his coverage. The other possibility is that the OLB was responsible for covering the flats. Either way you can tell how much our defense respects the guy because the majority of the time in that situation (running back stays into block) the ILB would come on a delayed blitz to the QB.

I agree. This wasn't a "designed" triple team, that's just how the coverage went.

Basically the playoffs begin for the Ravens this Sunday......lose, and they're out. I couldn't imagine the Steelers losing to the Browns.

Effectively you are right, but they might lose to the Bengals on Sunday. Then if we lost to the Eagles we would just have to match them in week 17.

The usual lip service that's been going on all season. Team just isn't any good and I wouldn't be surprise if they lose to the Eagles. To be completely honest, the Ravens don't need to be in the playoffs, because they are a one and done team. 

You shouldn't give up on your team until they are eliminated.

"Team just isn't any good"....no. The Browns aren't any good. Even if we end up at 8-8 we're "half good" so to speak. You can't just say we aren't any good when we've won games and are in the playoff hunt.

Even if they go 1 and done, who cares? We were 5-11 last year. Remember?

So you want to call out the media for reporting their opinion on the subject, but you have no proof to deny their opinions on what happened because you didn't bother to ask Steve Smith about the incident, even though it was a pretty big deal? You do know Smith has a history of doing this sort of thing. It also makes me think that after the comments in your story about people needing to focus and to make plays, that he was probably ticked off with some errant throws from Flacco because as we all have seen this season, Flacco has been pretty inconsistent with his deep passes.

So doing nothing to at least give Smith the opportunity to put it to rest, speculation is allowed to be fanned and to run rampant.

Except most places I read reported that he was mad "at Flacco" almost as fact, not opinion, and people interpreted it as fact in the comments, as you obviously have.

Sure, he should have asked in the interview, but he did give inside information from the trainer that is directly contradictory to the media...

Smith has a hjistory of getting pissed off, but he also has a history of saying "you can never over throw me".

  58 minutes ago, OriolesMagicPlease said:

  1 hour ago, respecttheRaven said:

My heart went out to Joe last game when....how many balls were dropped that were right into their hands??!! I saw at least 4!!!! C'mon man........You can't put it ALL on his back. The offense has to work like a well oiled machine, their just low on oil. How many games this year has the O-line been whole,.... healthy? 3,4 games? I understand that some people need to blame "someone" but it all can't be on him. That's all you see around here anymore. Oh, and most of those balls that were dropped were for pretty good yardage.......and the penalties!!!! How many plays were brought back??!! I am not saying anyone is perfect....just saying it is a team effort...all the way around!!!!    

The hate really amazes me. Joe has messed up plenty and most certainly deserves criticism. He does need to do better, no doubt about that. The money he is paid is thrown around constantly, but it is often forgotten that is what quarterbacks cost. They make more than the other positions on the field. I believe a lot of the vicious hate is rooted in jealousy of his wealth and success.

"it is often forgotten that is what quarterbacks cost"

No- $120 million is what TOP TIER Quarterbacks cost. Joe is currently bottom tier (lower than 25th), and has been 3 of the 4 years since his postseason run. That is where a lot of the frustration comes from.

How is he lower than 25th if he's 5th in passing yards this year? are you talking QBR or something? What is he 25th at?

And wrong, $18mil+/year is now starter money, not just top tier money. Joe makes a little more because, in case you forgot, he won us a Superbowl. Sure you want him to be better, but he got his market value. Tyrod is making $18mil a year for crying out loud.

That's a funny statement. Confident without Jimmy when the only corner to play decent outside of Jimmy is our Rookie 4th round pick Tavon Young. 

Jimmy going down led to Webb moving to corner and Elam falling down giving up a TD bomb.  

Jimmy went down right before halftime  vs Giants and in the second half Odell Beckman literally gained over 180 yds. 

I agree with you, but that TD wasn't Elam's fault, and he didn't fall down. He stumbled, sure, but didn't fall.

And I'd argue he stumbled because his instincts and his assignment were clashing. His assignment was to cover in front of him, but then he sees Hogan streaking past him, and no Weddle over top. He got stuck in the middle.

  18 hours ago, Raven1995 said:

  18 hours ago, Ravensfansince03 said:

I'm honestly not worried about the defense. i'm worried about this 50/50 offense. The fans deserve to know more about these lackluster check down passes Flacco and our offense keeps doing. It's like watching a pre mature offense sometimes. Flacco will throw it to the FB who's only about 2 yards ahead knowing he's about to get lit up by the defender shadowing him. I do not understand why this offense is still running these plays.

What is it?!?!? Are the receivers not getting open fast enough?? If so why haven't they made adjustments or audibles to counter the blitz?

Are they not putting in the effort during practice to be a more consistent/dangerous offense? We had that one great game against the Dolphins but we should not settle for that.
The fans deserve an honest answer from this organization on these check down passes Flacco is throwing over and over again, because it's happening in every game that we lose/

They need to run the ball, and run, and run. 52 passes to 15 runs is Terrible. You can't have Play Action if the Defense Knows you are going to throw it all the time. When Kubiak was Coordinator he kept running and Forset got most of his yards late in the game.The Patriots had a zone dense and rushed 3 players alot, and we didn't run? The OC needs to get on the ball on say "Run".

Run the ball when you're down 20 points and see how many games you win......

We weren't down 20 points the whole game. If you're down 1 score, or even 10-12 points, running the ball shouldn't be off the table. That is asinine.

I remember last year when Peyton stole the job back from Brock. On the series that won him the job back, and brought the team back to take the lead, I don't think Peyton threw a single pass. All he did was read the defense, change to the correct run, and let them go to work. And they marched down the field and scored.

We need Flacco to be able to make those reads and audibles. Marty needs to have the b@lls to run from behind....and not just that stupid shotgun power play, although we are admittedly getting better at it.

  49 minutes ago, VermontRaven said:

Mostly true, but not completely.  If the Bengals beat the Steelers and we lose to the Eagles, we could still win the division by beating Pitt and Cincy. 

I guess what I'm saying is that I get the narrative from a media standpoint, but it still makes me nervous as a fan when the next game for the Ravens is almost completely overlooked.

I mean technically yes. The issue is that if you can't beat Philly at home, there's really no rational reason to think you're going to beat Pittsburgh and Cincinnati on the road. 

I'm not saying we will technically be eliminated from playoff contention, because I don't believe we can be eliminated even if we lose and Pittsburgh wins. Its more of a "realistic elimination" in the form of we're not a good enough team to do what we need to do to make up the ground.

"Its more of a "realistic elimination" in the form of we're not a good enough team to do what we need to do to make up the ground. "

^^ This comment is correct, and I tend to agree. But you originally said this, below:

"...because there are no hypotheticals if we lose. "

Yes. Yes there are hypothetical if we lose. We can still hypothetically make the playoffs, as you acknowledged, with some help.

  1 hour ago, VermontRaven said:

  1 hour ago, Derrel said:

Easy win for the Pats, actually a laugh-er.

DId you watch the game?  We were in it until the very end, despite a horrible first half.  Obviously, I am very disappointed that we lost and how we played for much of the game, but to say it was an "easy win" by the Patriots is "a laugh-er"  I bet the Patriots are hoping they don't see us again in the playoffs!

We are nowhere near the same team that went to New England in 2012 and 2013. Brady will dissect us all day just like he did Monday night. They put us back in the game with two terrible plays on special teams.

"They put us back in the game with two terrible plays on special teams."

Why do we not get credit for forcing a fumble. I'll give you 1 terrible play by Cyrus, but we EARNED that second turn over, just like they earned their blocked kick. Dude didn't drop it. We forced it out.

Special teams are just as important as offense and defense, and the plays made in those situations are often the most pivotal. I hate the thought process of "oh if it weren't for these special teams plays". It's part of the game. That's why our head coach, and BB for that matter, were special teams guys.

  1 hour ago, Derrel said:

Belichek and his defensive coaches knew Flacco doesn't effectively read defenses and make appropriate changes under center. He showed the league how to control this offense. Als, so much for the dink and dunk Brady comments, he threw a winning 79 yard TD pass to a backup receiver. Easy win for the Pats, actually a laugh-er.

Of course he did. That's what happens when a receiver runs straight down the field and nobody even moves towards him for coverage. Every college QB in the country throws a TD pass there.

Also, backup WRs typically don't play 72% of their teams offensive snaps, which is what Chris Hogan does.

If Chris Hogan is a backup WR, than Mike Wallace and definitely Steve Smith, are backup WRs as well.

"That's what happens when a receiver runs straight down the field and nobody even moves towards him for coverage. Every college QB in the country throws a TD pass there."

I agree with a lot of your sentiment, but 1) there are some pretty bad college QBs out there and 2) I'm pretty sure that was a presnap read between Brady and Hogan, and Brady caught Weddle doing too much. Not every QB is going to make that read (and possible route audible) and catch the best safety in the league out of position. It was a savvy Brady play.

  12 hours ago, JamesA119 said:

  15 hours ago, bigcatfrank1 said:

There are some comments here that the Cardinals have released Michael Floyd. If that is true, I think that the Ravens absolutely should consider giving up one of the DB's for a space for Michael if they can work out a deal. Elam, Huff, lewis-Harris all are expendable for the rest of the season.

It's not a comment that Michael Floyd was released, it's a fact. We don't need him. We have better talents. Again I believe that our problem on offense is not talent but leadership and scheme

Yea. Seems like they don't practice enough together. That safety... Lol.

That safety was a good play by the Patriots, after a poor play by Hester. Yes, the offense needs to not get blown up there, but sometimes you just need to give the credit where it is due. I don't put that safety on them as much as I give it to the Pats.

  1 hour ago, Tiznut said:

Doesn't mean he was assigned to cover him man to man. 

That is correct.  They "release" to the safeties sometimes in coverage.  If you watch the play, you see Elam release the receiver, and Weddle misses the release...  He began to step forward, and was late to the coverage.  My husband said that when it happened.  Just because Idiot Gruden calls it that way doesn't make it so.  He made several different observations last night...  and I thought..  HUH?????  He's a Cheatriots lover.

Like when he blamed Flacco for the pass that hit Wallace between the 1 and 7 in stride and got dropped....I lost a lot of respect for Gruden on that one.

Pretty impressive that Flacco is 10-5 when the temp is 40* or below.  Growing up and playing in Delaware has its perks.

Joe grew up in south Jersey (Audubon). He only went to U Del for college, and that was after transferring from Pitt.

  1 hour ago, nj_ravens said:

  1 hour ago, objective view said:

The issues to be concerned about are 1) Our secondary, I do not share Garrett's point of view as much improved and that J. Smith is much of a positive influence. I am afraid that Brady can pick us apart if we do not get pressure on him. 2) Joe keep the pedal to the metal and be smart and Patient with the ball ...

" I do not share Garrett's point of view as much improved and that J. Smith is much of a positive influence."

Well, you would be wrong. Our secondary is better than that year. And they play better when Smith is in the game. These are facts. We could still lose the game, and we could still get torched in the secondary by Brady and they would still be a better unit than 2014.

Your objective view is not very objective.

You said facts, where are they. Someone is wearing the home colors in their perspective and someone is being objective. You might want to check out PFF's ratings for J. Smith ...

First of all, PFF is not gospel. I don't care for their grading. It is based on opinion, and I do not always share the opinions of the graders, especially when it comes to players they don't like, such as Flacco. Those graders don't always know what that player's assignment was. Their analysis, while sometimes insightful, isn't always accurate.

All that being said, here's some numbers for you:
Current Defensive rank: 1st overall
Current Ranking, Points given up: T-1st with NE
Current Pass Defensive rank: 7 overall with 222 ypg, 21 TDs, 14 picks
Current 3rd down efficiency: 33% allowed, ranked 1st

2014
2014 Defensive rank: 25th
2014 scoring rank: 25th
2014 Pass Defense Rank: 10th overall, 248 ypg, 22 TD, 11 picks.
2014 3rd down efficiency: 40% allowed, ranked 17th

If you recall, our secondary was depleted by injury, especially towards the end of the year. Here's an article grading them. http://thebaltimorewire.com/2014/12/10/baltimore-ravens-secondary-grading-player/ with some praise for Mr Smith. Chykie Brown was on this team. how easily we forget.

Do you remember who started vs NE?

Rashaan Melvin, and a deteriorating Webb. With Elam in the Slot, I believe. With basically no backup corners.

So are you really trying to make a point that our secondary is not better than 2014?

I could keep going and get the stats for how the 2016 defense has played with Jimmy in, vs how they played without, but that should be obvious to anyone with eyes who watched this team this year.

So where are your stats Mr. Objective? I've presented mine.

The issues to be concerned about are 1) Our secondary, I do not share Garrett's point of view as much improved and that J. Smith is much of a positive influence. I am afraid that Brady can pick us apart if we do not get pressure on him. 2) Joe keep the pedal to the metal and be smart and Patient with the ball ...

" I do not share Garrett's point of view as much improved and that J. Smith is much of a positive influence."

Well, you would be wrong. Our secondary is better than that year. And they play better when Smith is in the game. These are facts. We could still lose the game, and we could still get torched in the secondary by Brady and they would still be a better unit than 2014.

Your objective view is not very objective.

20 minutes ago, sami said:

I'm wondering why the Ravens decided to turn Keenan Reynolds into a WR when he had such a good career at Navy.

Because he was a triple option QB who we wanted to turn into a kick returner so we could take advantage of the skill set that allowed him to have a good career at Navy. 

The Ravens definitely would not have won if Tucker wasn't playing. Doesn't anyone remember WHY we have lost 5 previous meetings to Cincy? I sure do. It is because Flacco plays his worst football against them. He single handedly gave the Bengals both games last year, yet, even when he was playing so poorly, Harbaugh wouldn't take him out. He didn't do squat this game either. If you eliminate the first drive, he did absolutely nothing that any mediocre quarterback couldn't do.

"The Ravens definitely would not have won if Tucker wasn't playing" - Well, good thing he was. That's why we payed him.

"Harbaugh wouldn't take him out" You don't take out your Super Bowl Winning QB. You just don't.

"He didn't do squat this game either. If you eliminate the first drive, he did absolutely nothing that any mediocre quarterback couldn't do. "

If you eliminate his TD drive, but count the pick that wasn't his fault, of course it's going to look like he played a bad game.

You are blinded by your hate. Reject the dark side.

I put a big part of this on the coaches and the FO. Sorry, you don't sign a player just before the beginning of the season to start game one, who wasn't on another team and practicing. No way he was in football shape and you are just asking for pulled muscles and similar issues. They should have signed him mid August so he would have at least been more in game shape, maybe he wouldn't have had these problems or they would have surfaced earlier when they could have replaced him with minimal cost.

They were counting on Clay, Camp, and Reynolds. They didn't work out for various reasons ranging from fumbles to injuries to slow development/position change. Had to sign someone before the start of the season. Why not the GOAT?

Yea, he may be having a bad year, but he is still the best returner ever. Sure, it may not work out, but that doesn't mean it wasn't the right move at the time.

Lack of practice and it shows plus I don't think he is comfortable yet in Bmore but he can bust one two or three up the field we just gotta give him some more time! If some of you can give Joe more time to get himself together Devin needs the same thing!

"If some of you can give Joe more time to get himself together Devin needs the same thing! "

It's not anywhere close to the same situation.

WOW "a solid, healthy, functioning offensive line can work wonders". What about the other factors which have plagued the team all season long such as:

1. Poor coaching
2. Inconsistent play from Flacco
3. Special Teams missed tackles on kick coverage
4. Lack of a pass rush
5. Secondary missing tackles
6. Dropped passes
7. Inability of receivers to gain separation
8. Lack of Playmakers
9. Overabundance of penaltys
10. Offensive line's inability to block

Some issues have been corrected, yet new ones have surfaced. All this chaos
must have a starting point. In my opinion it starts with the HC and his coaching staff. Any opinions?

#10 is literally the same thing as the topic. A "solid, healthy, functioning" offensive line would be able to block, no? That's the whole premise. Come on, you just wanted to get to 10 on your list.

Also, it may (not will, but "may") help solve 2, 7, 8, and 9. Obviously Flacco SHOULD be playing better if the blocking is better. And if there is more time to block, then deep routes might actually have time to develop (possibly giving rise to playmakers). And if they are blocking better and functioning better, there should be less holding calls and false starts by definition.

There's a lot to gripe about, like your other 5 points. But you should be able to recognize the importance of having all of the offensive line starters healthy through your frustration.

I'm going Cowboys now, Ravens are wack. Bye!

You can stay in Dallas. Peace.