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I mean, who wants to play for the browns? He's trying anything he can to get pass over or trade out

Please don't quote entire mock drafts. If you are responding to a mock draft thread, anyone with an ounce of common sense will know you are commenting on the mock draft. It is just unnecessary scrolling for everyone, especially on mobile. Not too bad right now but there are still a lot of mocks that we will see before the draft

@LosT_in_TranSlatioN wishes you did as well

If we figure this out, we might as well start our own league to compete with the NFL.

He's a Cowboys fan. He wants to play for his childhood team. Your missing have the context. The day before he said he will do his best to help the browns become great if they pick him. It's nothing to do with Cleveland and everything about wanting to play for the team he loves. I'd say the same thing about Baltimore. Come and get me, I'm a huge fan I want to play for you.

No to Cruz. To may injuries. He could breakdown just like Pitta does. We need young, fast WR's that can play like the guys Brady has in New England. They must be able to go over the middle, take a hit. First draft a CB, a TE ( Howard from Ala. ), then let all but one of our TE's go. Get a center, LB, then someone to take Wagners place, another CB, then a BIG RB.

Another little peek inside this "tortured" mind. My fiancée works with kids with developmental and emotional disabilities and the Ravens are very kind to support them. Brandon Williams always volunteers to work with these kids. And it's not in a fund raising capacity, he is one on one, personally working with and helping these young children. Let me tell you, this is not an easy thing from time to time. Yet Williams is there time after time, giving of himself and not just to sit and sign autographs and take selfies, he is in the trenches with these kids and their teachers working with them. Someone who is willing to give his all to a disabled child will give more than his all for his fellow players on the field and we need more guys like that and we would be a super bowl team. You can't teach smarts and you can't teach dedication and he has both.

You wrote what you wrote in response to me saying the Ravens ended up with the right guy between Flacco and Ryan. In no way did you frame it that way when you first made the statement. But yeah, OK. lol And on your side note; I think most would say Joe performed admirably early on in the playoffs considering he was so inexperienced and had zero time as an apprentice behind an NFL franchise QB.

I'm going to lay out a few names I wouldn't mind in the first round. All realistic hopefully depending on how many QBs go before us. Dalvin Cook. Quincy Wilson, Taco Charleton, Teez Tabor, Corey Davis. Lucky if these guys are avaiable and we should pounce - Rueben Foster, Mike Williams, Marcus Lattimore, Solomon Thomas or maybe even Fournette ( all unlikely but one can always hope and pray)!

Sucks that Elam didn't pan out (adios to him btw), but hey, this could be a nice consolation prize. I doubt we get him because.....yeah.

Desmond king doesn't seem to mind. I kinda hope he'll be our pick too. He could change that perception I believe

LMAO! So now he's not just "average Joe", he's the QB that "wasn't Boller bad". Too much!

dude, it's offseason so chill...Ryan Mink just posts something to entertain us...real stuffs will happen after the draft and preseason.....

Dont worry man. if the defense starts to collapse i will go streaking to change momentum.

So what this means is we'll see a lot of confusion on the side lines as Roman wants to run, Marty wants to pass, and Harbaugh can't make up his mind and we end up wasting a timeout at a stupid time in the game like always.

As a courtesy to other members, PLEASE include position and school in the title when starting a thread on a specific prospect. For the most part, though, prospects should be discussed in the thread for their position.

I'll take Joe flaccos cap hit of you... or yandas or weddles or jimmys

Did Pernell McPhee really go for A.J. McCarron and a fifth?

@arnie_uk FYI... Cousins is going to cost 26 stars since this will be the 2nd straight year he's tagged. Gets that 20% increase.

I would be happy if he stayed healthy for the entire season, even if he can only run go routs!

My opinion? No on Jefferson, no on Cruz, and no on overspending to keep Wagner. The draft is deep with talented safeties, and if we decide to spend money on FA's there are more pressing positions to spend cash on than safety. While Cruz could be an interesting fit, his health issues are a huge red flag. We need dependable WR's, not someone who may or may not be able to give us a consistent presence on the field. And while I appreciate what Wagner brings to the table, I don't consider him as a top tier tackle, which it seems like him and his agent expect to be paid as. The Raven's need to spend their money wisely, and overpaying Wagner wouldn't be very smart. If we overpay anyone, give it to Williams, although I really don't see that happening either considering that we have a lot of talent at his position.

Our problem is our development with our WR's. We can never develop receivers which is why we always have to rely on bringing in a aging vet that has something "left in the tank". Bring in coaches that is know for their development of receivers. The route running for a lot of our guys is horrible. When you see guys like AB, Julio, OBJ and even Edelman, their route running is really good. I just think the coaching is mediocre in that department. It's been that way for a long time.

"Should Victor Cruz’s injury history be a concern?" If pundits deeply familiar with the Giants say in more or less unison that Cruz's athleticism is basically gone, I guess we should believe them...

Is there any scenario where Flacco and the Ravens have a good year? Just wondering. Asking this question is pointless snark. Yes. There is a scenario. We've already won a superbowl with this QB. It's not impossible.

I have all the numbers (except the Giants) right here https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1PHxshc1dzZrK6tlkdVMEh5JX4DAlABKIVpXUTJETN5k/edit?usp=sharing

If you're talking about spacing in posts here, <Shift>+<Enter> will move you to the next line with less spacing.

Whooooaaaaaa that's bold. You think we can manage it?

Because a team will have picked him before - John Madden

Yes, the coach called a play to get sacked....twice by the way if getting 2 first downs in an entire 4th quarter and part of the 3rd is moving the chains to you then cool, you are correct. 2 first downs........

Of course we'd all rather have an ugly guy that threw less interceptions and more touchdowns, but hey it's the off season and what else can we talk about? Maybe the smartest guy in NFL? We'd probably have that one too, with Urschel. LOL.

People need to remember he lives in Arlington. Isn't the stadium there or they practice there in the summer? He's an A+ character, so this is entirely about wanting to be a Cowboy because he was a fan for 20 years.

Oh my, now he's Pretty Boy Joe! Aren't we all jealous? http://www.baltimoreravens.com/news/article-1/The-Caw-Joe-Flacco-Is-The-NFLs-Most-Attractive-Player/0690cae5-7419-40ca-aa51-49323f7b4ab0

I really don't think Torrey Smith will be much cheaper than Mike Wallace..... I also think Brandon Marshall would be more expensive than Pierre Garcon....

Fans also need to wake up to the fact that the Dolphins had 10 wins this year. Jets had 10 wins last year. Bills had 9 in 2014 and so on. It's not like the pats are playing the browns 6 times a year. Other teams in the AFCE are competitive. They just aren't as good as the Pats. In fact since 2008 the Patriots have a 13-6 record against the AFCN and only 1 of those games was against the browns. So they beat the Ravens, Steelers and Bengles 2 out of every 3 times they play them. I would guess that is inline with their win percentage in their own division. Oh and I apologize for sticking up for the patriots. I hate them but facts are facts and I believe we as a team and fan base can not get better by continuing to stick our heads in the sand and blame our problems on others.

Inability to get a yard when you really need it is a hallmark of the West Coast Offense and the Zone Blocking Scheme. The former doesn't typically commit to the run, and will more likely rely on a quick pass - it has been a hallmark of the Andy Reid offenses, which Harbs is most familiar with. I'm generally a fan of zone blocking in the right scheme, but it is a very reactive, east-west approach: O-lineman steps in a direction, and doesn't really know who he is going to block until the defense slants, bulls, or stunts. Our offense is a hybrid of West Coast and Zone Blocking. That yard will continue to be hard to come by. That's why we need a bigger center. When in doubt, QB sneak and pray.

Wow! This is terrific. Well done

That's sort of the odd situation with this offseason... the defense was far and away the better unit of the two overall last season, yet its the unit that probably needs the most emphasis this offseason. The offense wasn't very good... that much is obvious. The problem is that there's actually not a very good amount of turnover that is likely to happen in terms of personnel. Flacco is obviously going to be there, the RBs don't figure to change dramatically, and 60% of your offensive line is locked into a starting job (Stanley, Yanda and Lewis). Perriman figures to factor in heavily, and we have like 6 TEs on the roster, 4 of which are under rookie contracts, so we don't expect to see dramatic turnover there. If Wallace is retained, you're basically looking at two new offensive lineman and an addition or two at WR, and that's probably about it for the offense. The offense is a case of just young guys needing to step up and play better, as opposed to major personnel changes. The defense is a different story. While overall pretty good last year, we are old at OLB and in the secondary, particularly at safety. We're looking at a youth movement at corner and at safety, we now need an ILB, and we probably need at least one more pass rusher, all of which you would figure we would like to see younger players at, not veteran FA signings. That's the issue. The defense is getting older and getting there fast, and its in need of a talent infusion and youth/speed, particularly on the back end.

ok then, I wish it weren't the Cowboys but I'll take care of the free agency stuff in a couple hours. I hate the Cowboys but I'll take them over the Pats or Steelers I suppose.

Giving Ray too much credit. He didn't even play the whole year. Missed games due to injury. Don't remember him playing offense either. I love the guy but no way does he get ALL the credit. If anyone's it was Joe's.

I guarantee that Ozzie came in with a realistic price that matches his value, somewhere around 6-7 million a year on a 5 year deal. This would give him the chance to sign Williams too if it worked. Prob was a deal in the $33 million ball park, just to feel it out. Wagner is not worth $10 million a year, no chance we should even think that would be worth it. The next and final offer should be 5-Yr, $42 million with escalators if he makes the Pro Bowl or we make the playoffs.

Cruz is not the same, we should pass.

to pay wagner 8-10 per year will be tough on us fixing other issues. b. williams going rate will be bad enough. we will only sign 1 of them imo.

I agree. I too feel that Cruz is done. I think a pairing of Mashall/Garcon, Wallace, and BP as a top 3 would be a solid WR core. I would not feel great about Wallace/BP/Cruz. To me, this would represent a last resort if we couldn't get a better WR in free agency and were able to pick up Cruz at vet minimum...but that would be putting a lot of pressure on Cruz and BP to step up and be major contributors...both of which I have questions about. (hoping BP can step up, but have 0 confidence in Cruz to give anything more than he did this year)

What about Victor Cruz? I know his health is an issue but he does have some gas still left in the tank. Maybe getting him and another vet like Torrey, Marshall, or Garcon? Having Perriman, Moore, Camp, and then 2 out of Wallace and the ones above plus a rookie wouldn't be too bad. Money would be the issue though.

I don't know what kind of predictions those were. Brown just regurgitated what the Ravens players and coaches already said. "The Ravens will add a veteran wide receiver"??? How insightful. I thought they let Brooks go too early. The Ravens desperately need quality depth at the safety and corner positions. I know they will address it in the draft. I also think they will find a gem as an undrafted free agent.

what do you consider a decent amount of time? on the sack and fumble , it was a free runner with him having no time to do anything because freeman missed the block. the sack for a loss he was on the ground when 3 seconds passed. both plays he had a defender on him barely 2 seconds after the snap. so you think 2 seconds is a decent amount of time for a QB to do a 5 and 7 step drop back? my point seems pretty clear now tbh...

I think Super Bowl MVP is largely rigged toward QB's, in a sense. You pretty much have to have one of two things happen to not win it. 1) A defender needs to play like Ray Lewis or Von Miller or 2) You need to play as poorly as Peyton Manning did. And I do think Joe is definitely a very strong playoff quarterback and I think the success of the Ravens largely hinges on him, but even in 2013 with Joe having his worst season to date, the Ravens were almost in the playoffs. I love Flacco and I think he's a damn good quarterback, but I don't think he's some Super Hero because he won the Super Bowl. Like, what would we be saying if the 49ers had won the Super Bowl? What's the narrative then?

First off, I appreciate the detailed response and you make a lot of valid points. I'm sorry if I implied that I don't have faith in Pierce or that I don't want to see him on the field. For starters, I don't give a NT much credit or criticism when it comes to sacks because I know that it comes and goes. He may have 7 one season and 1 the next and have a better year overall. Sacks is not a NTs job. Ultimately, a NT needs to swallow double teams and dictate to the opposing offense where the run game goes. B.Will is one of the best at doing that. He regularly makes life easy for our DEs and MLBs. That comes from overall awareness of scheme and football IQ. And of course you need to be physically gifted to be able to do that against opposing linemen. pierce is a fantastic athlete and can push a car over if he wanted to. I'm just not sure he diagnoses plays and knows when to sacrifice his body or stats for the better of the team. That's not a knock on Pierce but the Ravens play a complicated scheme on the line and if one person steps out of line then we give up big plays not an extra yard or 2. Pierce started loosing playing time as the season went on and to me that's a big concern. Maybe it's not his fault but that's an indication that he's just not ready. Early in the season when our D was full strength, we put Pierce in situations where he didn't need to think much. Just beat the guy in front of you. well to keep things simple, having Bwill start and Pierce play 30-50 percent of snaps is a luxury that id love to keep. Dline was one of the few consistant units on this team so why mess with it if you can afford to keep it? We can handle an injury crisis but if Pierce is the starter then he gets hurt or we need more bodies on 3rd and short or goal line then what? If Williams demands 8-10 mil a year then he's a talent that is worth us working around. It's not like he's going to ask for Suh money or we can't get out of his contract whenever Pierce is ready. i think iv said this on another thread, the Ravens ultimately have 30-35 million in cap space to work with for 2017 without letting go of players who started last year. If we keep b will and Wagner that's probably gonna count 10-12 mil against the cap combined in 2017. That leaves 15-20mil to attack a draft and FA this year so it's not like we were 2 years ago where we need to make a lot of sacrifices. Id love to have Gilmore but now we may be talking of something like 12mil a year money and I'm not sure our FO would have 2 CBs making 25 mil a year. B.Marshall on the other hand is someone that I think we should pursue before he gets released. Heck throw a 6th round their way and we're done here lol. His 7.5 mil cap hit is so doable and we could even sign him to an extension and spread the cap hit as he is in his last year of his deal. This will be an interesting off season as our current roster doesn't have any glaring need but a whole bunch of positions that could get upgraded. Well said. I agree that Pierce has the natural talent but I didn't see much consistency from him last year. He flashed a couple of games but was nowhere to be found in our biggest games (Pit, NE, etc). The NT position is not about sacks - it's about controlling both A gaps & making the o-line double & triple team you (something that BWill is one of the best in the league at). IF Pierce can take the next step, he is a replacement for BWill - if he doesn't, the Ravens have a huge hole up the middle that teams will run all day on. I would much rather see BWill signed and have Pierce play next to him - that makes our d-line so much stronger. Wallace is a selfish, one trick pony that disappears in games. I would much rather dump him, start Moore and use that money to sign BWill. Not that hard to replace a 65 yard per game WR.

Inability to get a yard when you really need it is a hallmark of the West Coast Offense and the Zone Blocking Scheme. The former doesn't typically commit to the run, and will more likely rely on a quick pass - it has been a hallmark of the Andy Reid offenses, which Harbs is most familiar with. I'm generally a fan of zone blocking in the right scheme, but it is a very reactive, east-west approach: O-lineman steps in a direction, and doesn't really know who he is going to block until the defense slants, bulls, or stunts. Our offense is a hybrid of West Coast and Zone Blocking. That yard will continue to be hard to come by. That's why we need a bigger center. When in doubt, QB sneak and pray. I think the problem is that we don't have the players to actually run a West Coast offense. The West Coast relies on accurate, timed passes, quick hitters that can supplement the run game. You also need a bit of a mobile, meaning more agile, QB that can move around in the pocket a bit to extend a play. This is why guys like Alex Smith can actually put up decent numbers and win you games even though he's not known for having a cannon arm. Joe Flacco doesn't have great timing, doesn't have great touch, and isn't exactly agile. Secondly, it relies heavily on Tight Ends. Since it does your TE's need to be playmakers. While Pitta is excellent in actually getting open in zone coverage and has very good hands, he's not a playmaker. I think he'd be a good #2 move TE option at this point in his career. Hopefully Maxx Williams is the guy we think he is. Because the short pass replaces your run, your TE's can get away with not being the best run blockers in the world. Third, your receivers don't have to be fast. They don't have to be huge. They need to have good hands and do something NONE of the Ravens WR can do, and that is get separation. We run HORRIBLE routes. How can you run a spread formation with no backs and get nobody open? Yes, this actually happened several times last season. Lastly, you need an O-line that can pass protect. Most of our line is not good at that. They are plow ahead maulers and not guys that back pedal well. Ditch the zone run/west coast garbage. We do not have the right talent to run it. Go power run, twin TE, playaction. This is the single most important thing the Ravens can do to win next season and it won't cost them a single penny to do it.